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Do you have any idea what we're already paying every year for **** health care because it's not a single payer? Do you have any idea how much not having single system costs extra? Cause the cost is not the level of care...
Spend a month in a medical billing office. You'll see...
Who's "we"?
I'm a huge advocate of national health. As a former business owner I know the costs and benefits and the cons.
What I would propose is a public/private system paid via payroll taxes. The progressives want zero to do with that model.
I'm a huge advocate of national health. As a former business owner I know the costs and benefits and the cons.
What I would propose is a public/private system paid via payroll taxes. The progressives want zero to do with that model.
Yep. I agree.
The issue is its a me me world. People want and force of utopia. Except no one wants to directly feel the pain (taxes) to pay for it. They want the "other guy" who makes more to pay for those programs.
Single payer, i.e. taxpayer funded medical care, has been tried around the world and has failed. So why keep trying it? We can fail better than the rest of the world?
Failed? How so?
Providing equal or even better care for every citizen at a third or less than what it's costing to cover a portion of your population at varying levels of service with outright denial of coverage for some being an everyday occurrance is considered a failure by comparison?
I'm a huge advocate of national health. As a former business owner I know the costs and benefits and the cons.
What I would propose is a public/private system paid via payroll taxes. The progressives want zero to do with that model.
So why don't conservatives start pushing for that instead of just trying to keep the status quo and block others actions? They do it right they could probably get enough traction on the other side to get enough swing votes.
Regardless, something has to be done that is the failure that the current system is. It's rank with overspending that is only going to get worse.
So why don't conservatives start pushing for that instead of just trying to keep the status quo and block others actions? They do it right they could probably get enough traction on the other side to get enough swing votes.
Regardless, something has to be done that is the failure that the current system is. It's rank with overspending that is only going to get worse.
Because doing the right thing gets no one elected. Period.
A balanced politician does not get elected.
Like a flat tax. Exempt those making than X amount based on poverty levels. Get rid of deductions.
That buys you zero votes. You got the liberals crying its not fair for the poor. You got conservatives saying they are paying too much in taxes.
Why not a public option, like they do with schools.
You want private insurance, buy it, you want public insurance, buy it.
I think a two-tiered system could work. NHS in Britain suffers from overly generous benefits that were promised ages ago, and they can't get rid of them because NHS is the third rail of British politics. What we could do is offer basic benefits for free to all Americans, and then those who want better benefits can purchase private insurance.
I don't think anybody disagrees that Obamacare is a nightmare but neither the right nor the left has proposed anything better so I would sooner keep it than revert to the old system.
You have to understand medicine and priorities we place on scheduling elective diagnostic procedures. We stratified risks.
A healthy male 28 years old with no family history with just a little blood on toilet paper and no other symptoms would be put on a much lower priority than a 40 year old healthy male with a family history and same little blood on toilet paper. Because the 40 year is older and has a family history.
Social health programs stratify risks. That 28 year old male gets push down the waiting list. It ain't going to be next week for a colonscopy for him in UK or Canada. Unless they want to pay out of pocket and go to private doctor. It may be 30-60 days before thar 28 year old gets in.
In the USA that 28 year with their current employer insurance will get in and have the procedure done within a week or even sooner than that.
I'm not an old lady, yet I had to have a colonoscopy to diagnose a stomach discomfort I was having. From the date I was referred, to the actual date I had it done (in Miami, FL) a MONTH passed, and I had insurance, "fabulous" insurance, by states' standards. So I'd like to know exactly where people are having colonoscopies done the day after in the U.S., unless it's some kind of nice little scammy colonoscopy practice held by a few physicians.
Single payer, i.e. taxpayer funded medical care, has been tried around the world and has failed. So why keep trying it? We can fail better than the rest of the world?
Yeah? Where has it failed? Or are you saying that because, well, it's the automatic knee-jerk right wing response?
Why don't we? I'll tell you why not. Because Democrats and their type want socialist-type benefits paid for on the backs of capitalists. True national health would require 47% of people to pay far more than they currently pay, and the democrats want nothing to do with that.
I'll bet this is coming from someone for whom a trip "abroad" is down yonder to the local Walmart. lol
Btw, I've lived in Israel, Spain, France, and here, using health care in all those countries. But of course, you who have lived only in Podunk, U.S.A. and have never been outta there, are going to instruct the rest of us about health care in other nations, eh?
I think a two-tiered system could work. NHS in Britain suffers from overly generous benefits that were promised ages ago, and they can't get rid of them because NHS is the third rail of British politics. What we could do is offer basic benefits for free to all Americans, and then those who want better benefits can purchase private insurance.
I don't think anybody disagrees that Obamacare is a nightmare but neither the right nor the left has proposed anything better so I would sooner keep it than revert to the old system.
I think, for starters, what needs to be done is all general practice procedures be done either for cash, or like you said, an optional rider on the basic public health plan which will cover 100% of ALL inpatient services. The optional rider, in my case for Medicare for all, can cover the entire cost of outpatient procedures, all you need to pay is a co-pay or add an a kicker to the rider that will cover 100% of outpatient procedures for an additional cost either monthly, or deducted from your paycheck. Either way, having some kind of single payer option will introduce some real competition to healthcare, and force private insurers and providers to actually become affordable, you know, like they are in Canada and the UK. Their private health plans are a fraction of the cost of health plans in the US and offer the same, or more, benefits
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saritaschihuahua
I'll bet this is coming from someone for whom a trip "abroad" is down yonder to the local Walmart. lol
Btw, I've lived in Israel, Spain, France, and here, using health care in all those countries. But of course, you who have lived only in Podunk, U.S.A. and have never been outta there, are going to instruct the rest of us about health care in other nations, eh?
I've been to England twice, first time for a month and second time for 5 months. I got sick and while I had private travel insurance that reimbursed me later, I waited the same amount of time at a walk-in center as I would have here. My OH has gotten looked at promptly by her general practitioner many times, sometimes you just have to do a few tricks, like call within the first 15 minutes of opening, to get an appointment for that same day. Sure the NHS has its issues and flaws, but overall most people are satisfied with it. But, the NHS isn't the only model to follow, anyway. Most of continental Europe follows a public-private model whereby ALL of the physician offices are privately owned and run, and only the hospitals and ambulance services are publicly run and funded (like France). It's true that travel does broaden the mind, something the typical right-wing American has not experienced.
Last edited by theunbrainwashed; 07-04-2013 at 07:35 PM..
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