Why Is Raising the Debt Limit Good? (employment, wage, Clinton)

[gen811]

Originally Posted by DRob4JC

Someone answer this for me...

Other than the run of the mill partisan cheerleading (left is good, right is bad, or vice versa, Bush bash, Obama bash, etc.)...

Why is raising the debt limit good for America? Why is continuing to spend out of control without any sort of governance or limitation good for America in the long run?

To me, we are going to hit a financial brick wall at 70 mph if we continue to do this. And this is no longer a question of whether or not it will happen - it is just a matter of time if we continue down this path. Less and less people are paying taxes - yet the government foot has not let off the pedal with regards to spending.

Again - this isn't partisan politics - this is real life and how it will be impacted when we hit the brick wall.

So please tell me why we should want more than $17 trillion in debt? And why we should spend $1.6 trillion more than we take in each year?

it isn't.

but that is the only way they can keep the SCAM system going.
because money is debt the more money in the system the more debt there has to be.
and you know what

the only ones benefiting from this are those with 0% loans aka member banks of the FED the scam system.
revealed.

meanwhile they use HFT to steal money from the stock market as well as well as running more ponzi schemes and casinos.
the whole system is a scam forced on us by those in power.


please people those with any understanding of math:

answer this
where does the interest come from in money?

principle = principle +i?

where does the I comes from

yes that is right inflation is the answer and for that the fed needs to inject money into the system

but where does the money go to? the fiat?

yes that is right those money are not going to us EVER.

it is flowing to the top instead of defaulting on the loans they will give themselves it by printing whether we default or not to bail themselves out thus STEALING WEALTH like the leeches that they are at the top.

those at the very top are largely useless they are producing nothing and not innovating at all.

even Ron Paul says that if you are going to BAIL OUT THE them giving the money to the people first would have been 100x better than giving it to thieves and criminals.
Bill still suggests retiring the whole debt and just issuing government money and that's that.
there should be no interest for all intents and purposes so he says.

thus I say this.

MONEY expansion should be DETERMINED BY THE PEOPLE THEMSELVES 75-80% maybe should vote each year how much money supply will increase or NOT increase or DEFLATE.
thus when the economy is skewed to one side it can balance out.

if it is at 50 50 then it will not likely increase then

if people ask for inflation then it shall distributed equally by a set number to people to redistribute wealth like the cycle of economic systems.

fascism capitalism socialism communism.

the cycles of economic unrest. since they refuse real capitalism I would rather the people choose their own fate.
NO REPRESENTATIVES ALLOWED people have to VOTE ON THIS if less than 50% real citizens vote on this it shall be NULL and void.

if this is the case people shall be responsible for all consequences.
no one else to blame but themselves.

government officials themselves CANNOT control the money.
Banks and corporations shall not control the money as well.

only the majority of the masses should.

money is simply a promise.
if the masses want to BREAK their promises like most elites gov and poor moral people welfare queens then so be it.

others shall break their promises to them,
as well.
we will not honor contracts with those that break their own contracts.

[lycos679]

Originally Posted by pghquest

If it doesnt increase revenues, then how does it help reduce the deficit?

Was that my claim? Have I made any claim whatsoever on revenues? Or was my claim that the Obama debt commission recommended raising taxes.

Talk about strawmen and moving the goal post.

Let's recap shall we?

Originally Posted by pghquest

And even the Obama debt commission said raising taxes was a bad idea because it would reduce revenues. What information do you have to indicate they were wrong?

Originally Posted by lycos679

You will have to refer me to where you saw the report said that raising taxes would be a bad idea. The report in 2011 proposed raising gas taxes, restoring pre bush era tax rates on dividends, abolishing the AMT, capping fed tax revenue at 21% of GDP, eliminating income tax deductions, lowering rates (flatten the code and broaden the base), expanding the salary subject to FICA, raising the retirement age.

http://www.fiscalcommission.gov/site...h12_1_2010.pdf

[middle-aged mom]

Originally Posted by MTAtech

The requirement to even have a vote on the debt limit is self-imposed upon Congress. There was a time when it was automatic.

But to understand what the debt limit is we must first realize that Congress has the power to spend money and also raise revenues and can decide to spend more than the revenues received. Those are obligations. What the debt limit vote is, is a vote to borrow the money to pay for expenditures Congress already obligated itself to fund. It is therefore hypocritical to vote to spend more than you receive and then refuse to pay for those expenditures. It would be like ordering a car from a dealer and then refusing to pay the lease or loan.

The second of your points is false, spending is not out of control. The deficit is actually falling. It also isn't the raw number that matters. It's the debt compared to the size of the economy. That's how we got rid of the World War II debt, which compared to the economy, was much bigger than the $17 billion today. Stead GDP growth while maintaining a deficit within growth will make the debt irrelevant.

Bad news for budget scowls: the days of a ONE TRILLION DOLLAR deficit are over. In fact, the deficit is falling fast, according to the CBO and the fiscal outlook is stable.

.

[pghquest]

Originally Posted by lycos679

Was that my claim? Have I made any claim whatsoever on revenues? Or was my claim that the Obama debt commission recommended raising taxes.

Talk about strawmen and moving the goal post.

Let's recap shall we?

The discussion is about raising the debt ceiling is it not?

Originally Posted by middle-aged mom

.

Why would you thumbs up something completely wrong?

One can always tell those who arent responsible for bills, and those who are, through way of owning businesses etc..

ANYONE who claims a budget is an obligation, doesnt know what the hell their talking about..

[gen811]

anyway it is best to NOT OR EVER EVEN BORROW Money.

the velocity of money and tax payments would have went up and reduced the debt if instead of the government and FED giving free money to the banks they should have given free money to the people

to pay back the loans they gave.
they should have given everyone 100k per adult citizen.
NO ILLEGALS.

that would have wiped out the debt of the usa debt with taxes and velocity of money circulating.

remember

100k = 10x the money supply if they deposit into banks.

so essentially it is 1 million dollars per 100k per adult citizen.

this will make high inflation just like RIGHT NOW?

oops.

poor will still lose it all in 2 years.
no big deal.

inflation short term will likely be 10-20% for 1-2 years.

oops wait a sec

food inflation was 100% in the last 5 years.
it immediately jumped 50% after 2008-2009 QE.

OOPS it was even worse than what I proposed? well what do you know.
it makes no real difference except poor will WASTE the money on luxury goods

and smart businessmen will buy up all the necessities and buy up food water energy oil etc.
instead of investment in productive capacity.

well well well.

which is worse poor people that waste their money on luxury goods or rich/elites buying up necessities?

take your pick on the inflation.

PS education healthcare + housing will likely go up 10-20%. from the lows
but regardless housing is too expensive anyway. it will likely balance out at 100k per person

200k and it would go up 300k and go up enormously

etc.
there is no real free lunch.

if the banks wanted to bail themselves out they should have given the people the money to pay them,
that would have done the job with the same amount they gave themselves.

REMEMBER FED gave 20+trillion to the banks and more.

[Jean71]

Originally Posted by bUU

Raising the debt limit allows us to pay our bills. How much we spend is a completely different matter. Saying one day that we'll do X, Y and Z, and the next day saying, "We're not going to pay our bills," damages the credit of the nation, resulting in us paying higher interest on subsequent borrowing of money (such as when one set of government bonds come to maturity, and we have to replace that portion of the already-existing debt with new issues).

Absolute BS!
Raising the debt ceiling means we are BORROWING MORE MONEY.

Just the INTEREST PAYMENT on our debt is around $220 billion a year!

There is NOTHING good about raising the debt ceiling.

[NoJiveMan]

I'm in favor of slashing do nothing congresspersons salaries. Let's balance the budget rhetoric rears it's ugly little head again, only under a black president though. If Romoney were president, none of this budget battling and debt ceiling crap would be happening. Conservatives weren't conservatives till Tuesday, January 20, 2009.

Originally Posted by Jean71

Absolute BS!
Raising the debt ceiling means we are BORROWING MORE MONEY.

Just the INTEREST PAYMENT on our debt is around $220 billion a year!

There is NOTHING good about raising the debt ceiling.

But that was okay from 2000 to 2008.

[lycos679]

Originally Posted by NoJiveMan

I'm in favor of slashing do nothing congresspersons salaries. Let's balance the budget rhetoric rears it's ugly little head again, only under a black president though. If Romoney were president, none of this budget battling and debt ceiling crap would be happening. Conservatives weren't conservatives till Tuesday, January 20, 2009.



But that was okay from 2000 to 2008.

And under Clinton. - Raised 4X
And under Bush 1. Raised 4X
And MASSIVELY ok under Reagan. Raised 18X while tripling the debt.

[Think4Yourself]

All raising the debt limit is is paying for the things Congress already voted to spend money on. It has nothing to do with spending new money and instead just paying the debts for the old things they already spent money on. It's like when your electric bill comes do at the end of the month.

So Republicans are saying they just want to not pay any of America's bills which will destroy the country's credit rating and cause a massive economic catastrophe when the country defaults for no good reason at all. Even Newt Gingrich got this right; if you want to reduce spending then actually reduce spending but don't simply refuse to pay your bills.

[NoJiveMan]

Originally Posted by lycos679

And under Clinton. - Raised 4X
And under Bush 1. Raised 4X
And MASSIVELY ok under Reagan. Raised 18X while tripling the debt.

Hummm, looks like someone's trying to break a pattern of increases, but why? What was once good for the goose isn't good anymore?

If the government shuts down, congresspersons will still be paid. for doing nothing.