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If some guy wants to rob a liquor store or mug an old lady, and then notices there is someone with a gun nearby and decides not to do it, how do we count that as "a life saved"?
Nothing happened. No threats made, no shots fired, nobody got robbed, nobody frightened, nada.
Yet there definitely could have been a "life saved". And if that happens a thousand times over the course of a few weeks in all the major cities in the country, we can be almost certain that some lives were saved by guns, that would have been lost if the law-abiding folks hadn't had them.
But you'll never see them on TV or in the papers, never see any police reports about it, won't even hear about it over the back fence as gossip.
Yes these are "lives saved by guns", as surely as the guy who had some guy pull a gun on him and demand his wallet, and pulled his own gun and made the criminal run away or surrender.
Except that they are probably MORE numerous.
The biggest benefit of having law-abiding citizens carry guns whenever they want to, is that a lot of crimes that would have happened, aren't even tried. In other words, deterrence.
Still no one has described a way to get these incidents into "reported statistics", since they are never reported.
Actually they haven't been, not even close. They are sound and based on standard polling techniques and analysis standards.
You seem to want evidence - not just "self-reported garbage". Where is your evidence (not just self-reported garbage) that Lott's numbers are wrong?
or that any of the numbers in the articles i linked to are wrong? and we want real evidence, not some feel good rubbish because you dont want to deal with self reported statistics. or cometlear, how about you post evidence to the contrary of what we have posted. prove lotts numbers were debunked, prove the other studies are faulty in some way.
IF you are young and strong and have some experience street fighting skill....You sneak in there and give the goon a hard kick to the back of the head and then run.....I never said I was anti-gun...just not a gun worshiper...A smart man should be able to cope in life without a weapon -through wisdom and brain power...a gun is just an added bonus...no a first resort.......As for the UFC type...You are pushing reality to the outter bounds there...a capable fighter is not usually a bully. I do see your point....getting a mad dog "UFC" type to let go is like beating a pit bull with a club....it does not do much good.....I will never admit to you what I would really do if it was totally needed......we do not "diverge" that much...You are just more vocal than I am...
Internet tough guys r advocates of gun control bek when u can beat 10 guys with your 3 day class at bs school of karate why would u need a gun
IF you are young and strong and have some experience street fighting skill....You sneak in there and give the goon a hard kick to the back of the head and then run.....I never said I was anti-gun...just not a gun worshiper...A smart man should be able to cope in life without a weapon -through wisdom and brain power...a gun is just an added bonus...no a first resort.......As for the UFC type...You are pushing reality to the outter bounds there...a capable fighter is not usually a bully. I do see your point....getting a mad dog "UFC" type to let go is like beating a pit bull with a club....it does not do much good.....I will never admit to you what I would really do if it was totally needed......we do not "diverge" that much...You are just more vocal than I am...
That's sort of like telling a carpenter they should be able to get through life without a saw. I see guns as tools.
We live in an increasingly dangerous and, I would say, insane world. The old ways don't always work.
I appreciate your perspective, though.
Because police to not track the data so you cannot have a study.
The surveys portray a pretty accurate picture of what happens within a few points. Many times guns are used without firing a round to deter criminals trying to do harm to someome or when someone gets attacked by a wild animal which is a real occurance in many parts of the country.
Even the homicide data does not separate justifiable v non justifiable homicide. So if someone breaks into your house and is shot to death that number will show up in the statistic. Or when a cop shoots a perp or when the murder is against other criminals (gang activity).
We have no idea if they portray an accurate picture. No one is denying that guns are used many times to deter a crime. The question is how many times, and basing such conclusions on self-reported incidents is foolish.
Guns especially hand guns are specifically designed to kill a human being in close quarters or at close range....
Guns will never take the prize as the life safer of the year...
Guns will always be used MORE to kill than to save lives.
Most paranoid gun-rights-haters base their obsession upon falsehoods such as these. Look like we have another such paranoid here.
Quote:
I like guns but I am no so deluded to think that a world with out guns is more dangerous than one with guns..guns are dangerous...end of story.
That is not the choice we have.
Which is safer? A world where only lawbreakers have guns? Or a world where both lawbreakers, and the hundred-times-more-numerous law-abiding citizens, BOTH have guns?
(Even when the law-abiding citizens mostly don't bother carrying, but some do?)
We have no idea if they portray an accurate picture. No one is denying that guns are used many times to deter a crime. The question is how many times, and basing such conclusions on self-reported incidents is foolish.
You are still ignoring requests to prove that Lott's numbers have been debunked. Why is that?
or that any of the numbers in the articles i linked to are wrong? and we want real evidence, not some feel good rubbish because you dont want to deal with self reported statistics. or cometlear, how about you post evidence to the contrary of what we have posted. prove lotts numbers were debunked, prove the other studies are faulty in some way.
I don't have to post anything. You guys are the ones making an assertion.
For the record, I am a thorough skeptic. I am skeptical that gun control laws will result in less violent crimes. Perhaps if every state enacted these laws so someone could not go one state over to buy guns, it might have an effect. I am also skeptical that guns are used more often to stop or deter crimes vs. in the commission of crimes.
Internet tough guys r advocates of gun control bek when u can beat 10 guys with your 3 day class at bs school of karate why would u need a gun
Not one of those.....I never needed to take any "class" - when I was younger I grew up in a rough and tumble rural hood...and had some urban street experience also...You learn to defend and offend naturally ...like an animal fighting for survival....There is nothing worse than a wimp...perfect example - George Zimmerman...could not take a kid in a fist fight but was a big man with his pistol......It is not about being "tough" It is about being aware and intelligent....You have to see trouble coming and you have to go around it...not through it....If I sense danger....I weave my way out of there like a snake...if cornered..even being old...I will hurt you...I may not win but you will regret the offence.....Guns are cool...as a kid we used them as toys.
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