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I believe that NAFTA, China most favored nation trade status, and the Pacific Rim trade agreement is an abomination.
I will NEVER send another dime to the republican party- NEVER.
I will support only individual candidates that support the middle class and have the best interest of US manufacturing and fiscal, middle class prosperity, and the best interest of the average US citizen.
Sadly, the democrat party (unlike the time or FDR and Truman) opposes the middle class and the best interest of the US.
We need politicians who are not bought and sold by corporate special interests (much to the detriment of the middle class) and pander to every weird special interest group (gay lobby, illegal immigrants, global warming loons, trial lawyers, ect....).
We no longer have statesmen. We have carpetbaggers who seek to line their pockets via "public service" and seek to be millionaires by screwing America (see the Clintons).
Wow. Such polar responses. In general, I agree with freeing up trade (not an all at once remove the floodgates and make everything free trade) approach. However, it's all in the details. What's labeled as free trade could be a means to bypass intellectual property, environmental regulations, or workers rights. Or it could be removing a tariff that should have never been there in the first place.
People like to complain about wage stagnation (it is a genuine issue), but the crap that you can buy with today's dollars blow whatever you could buy in the 70's out of the water. My laptop for $540 would have cost like $2000 several years ago, my iphone is much better than phones back then for the same price, my car is much, much better than the one my dad bought for a similar amount of dough back in the 70's, my microwave is better, clothes are way cheaper...... A significant portion of this is due to free trade, an issue that has both benefits and drawbacks, something the posters seemed to miss on this thread.
In general, blocking free trade is not a good idea (again, if it's not something labeled as free trade but a legal copout). Look what import substitution did to Latin America, especially Venezuela. Belize has an absurd tariff. Support for it was drawn from some of the same platform points that the anti-NAFTA people posted here. In reality for them, it was a bunch of BS that just priced necessities out of the reach for many average Belize citizens. And the job situation will still crap.
Also, you have to look at the benefits the other country receives. I would support a bill that would hurt the US a little, but benefit another country a lot. A richer mexico will benefit the US in the long run. South Korea could not have blossomed like they did if trade was not as free as it was.
I would support a bill that would hurt the US a little, but benefit another country a lot. A richer mexico will benefit the US in the long run. South Korea could not have blossomed like they did if trade was not as free as it was.
Why would any nation on earth want to enact a policy that will hurt it? What kind of citizens would support such a bill???
If you would like to be generous, write a damn check. It's tax deductible.
Our founding fathers created a system of government that was designed to be slow and inefficient, for reasons like this. Unfortunately, those safeguards were disassembled through the passing of time.
And here we are today, held hostage by a rogue political system that certainly does not represent "we the people".
this is a trade deal to keep China from extending its power in the region, thats it.
*Ding Ding Ding*
Although I created this thread in 2013, and didn't realize it at the time, but this deal is truly to put a blow on China. What's even more funny to me is that with this deal, once we send our jobs to participating countries and they actually become wealthy, we'll look for even more countries to compete with. Think about it, we only worked with China to further damage their relations between the Soviets, we gave them millions of jobs to bring them somewhat into our sphere of influence; now look where that got us.
This kind of reminds me of the Dave Chappelle skit when he says: They should've never gave you.. well, you know the rest.
The Sierra Club is running anti-TPP radio ads in SoCal asking people to stop the GOP from railroading this bill.
We got liberal protestors demanding that the state temporarily ban water intensive farming crops on farms that do mostly exports (the claim is that 1/3 of China's walnuts come from California and that each acre of walnuts consumes enough water to supply 10000 homes for a years AND that most of these farms in CA a re owned by China based companies)
Basically the set up is that if Obama gets this pact ratified, the DNC will then be able to run ads against the GOP over it's passage.
They are one and the same, its like WWE, sometimes one side acts as bad guys, the other side acts as good guys, but beyond the scenes, they are all in the same club together and you are not invited.
That is how they play the game among the few remaining partisan hacks that want to keep the illusion going.
Most people I talk to these days see no difference between both parties. Their top donors are the same.
Ive got zero qualms on this but I am an open free market conservative. And make no apologies for that. I think opening up markets and removing tariffs is the ultimate way to improve the world.
But this should all be based on Voluntary Labor and also the consent of the governed with these trade pacts using Free Market Ideology. Correct?
The TPP Trade Deals are being kept from the citizens that are constitutionally allowed to know what it is.
250 Million+ Chinese had their lands stolen and forced to move into the cities to make widgets. That is not Free Market Economics either.
Slave Labor is being utilized in several TPP Trade Members.
Trade lets us get more for what we produce, and pay less for what we consume. It makes the world and America richer, on the whole. The trade agreement simply removes impediments to free trade, so is good--period. We will be richer as a consequence.
President Obama, for once in his otherwise miserable presidency, has got this right. The demagogues are riling up the ignorant for their own political benefit, without regard to the prosperity and income of the country. Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders are playing the roles of craven opportunists, and other Democrats are so indebted to Big Labor that they have no choice but to spout counterproductive, anti-prosperity nonsense. Evidently many posters have fallen for this line.
I'm not even going to bother citing this because there is so much information out there. But real wages (inflation-adjusted) have flatlined for years and labor force participation hasn't recovered to its levels 8 years ago. Free trade definitely has something to do with it.
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