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Why are we still there? There are still around 80,000 military personnel in Europe and another 50,000 in Japan. United States military deployments - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Cold War ended over 20 years ago. Who are we defending Germany from? Japan? These countries are perfectly capable of defending themselves.
While there are some reports we are making some minor reductions in troop levels we still will have tens of thousands in these countries 10 years from now under DOD plans. Pentagon details downsizing of US forces in Europe - World News
We have pressing problems in this country that need our focus and yet we can't even get our troops home from deployments that became obsolete a generation ago and it doesn't even seem to matter which party is in control in Washington, the troops remain overseas.
It is not about protecting anyone, Europe is a potential battlefield, a buffer against Russia (the cold war is far from over), a playground for industrial espionage, and a market for US arms exports.
I agree that the US should leave Europe alone, which would basically require Nato to be dissolved. That would be very good for Europe and the world, but not for the US. There is also that latent racism in Washington that makes some Americans think that the US and Europe kind of belong together just because of our white history. I don't agree with that, we have developed very far apart. We may look similar, but we aren't. Same as with African-Americans and Africans.
So, from a European perspective I totally support all foreign military leaving Europe. Europe should eventually implement a totally reformed European Union (the current one is a terrible mess) including Russia, i.e. Europe from Portugal all the way to the Pacific coast across Japan. But that can hardly happen as long as the Putin regime is in power.
By the way, I am not so sure this topic is enough for this forum, seems just another politics thread to me.
Why are we still there? There are still around 80,000 military personnel in Europe and another 50,000 in Japan. United States military deployments - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Cold War ended over 20 years ago. Who are we defending Germany from? Japan? These countries are perfectly capable of defending themselves.
While there are some reports we are making some minor reductions in troop levels we still will have tens of thousands in these countries 10 years from now under DOD plans. Pentagon details downsizing of US forces in Europe - World News
We have pressing problems in this country that need our focus and yet we can't even get our troops home from deployments that became obsolete a generation ago and it doesn't even seem to matter which party is in control in Washington, the troops remain overseas.
The troops in Asia are what keeps China in line (though we still bend over backwards for them enough).
Once the US military presence in Asia leaves, China would immediately take Taiwan. From there, I wouldn't be surprised if they went after Japan and continued from there in that part of the world.
They have drawn down significantly since the 80's. However, a permanent presence has been established by law.
I know in Germany's case it's a slippery slope, it's about local economies as well as training and foreign relations. On one hand old Germans ***** about jet noise, but their neighbor is probably connected to the base in someway. Not only that they ***** about regular airplane noise also so it's not like the us military is any more or less a target. One thing I have learned is older Germans hate jet noise.
A lot of business owners and regular citizens were upset when they closed down Bitburg. Something like 1000 jobs were lost directly and another 1000 indirectly. Many business that catered to Americans, mainly restaurants bars and auto repair facilities were making a lot less money or closed down entirely.
I don't have figures this is just what my landlord who is an elderly German who used to work on Bitburg AB told me. At the time he owned 3 homes that he rented out to American soldiers to supplement income and ultimately lead to financial stability in retirement. When Bitburg closed he had to rent to Germans at a much lower rate and eventually lost one of his rental homes and then another. Many people were forced to take lower paying local jobs.
So small out of the way places have a lot of economic stake in the American military bases. Specifically Bitburg and Wittlich in the case of Spangdahlem AB. and Kaiserslautern in the case of Ramstein/Baumholder. Also indifference, 99.11% of Germany couldn't give two craps about the military bases tucked away in a deep corner of the German equivalent of Kentucky.
These countries are perfectly capable of defending themselves.
No they aren't. The cold war is "over" but Russia could De-stabilize very quickly. Plus we train them. My Job in the military was to teach Netherlands Belgium and Germany how to things the US military way. Thier pilots are trained in the United States using American warplanes and trainer jets.
We have pressing problems in this country that need our focus.
They would just waste the money somewhere else. Besides what other country can install military installations in other countries? What country controls the world's economy? What country's language dominates business and politics? What country has 300 million people and vast resources? What countries media dominates the world? These are all show of dominance factors. Most players of games like to be on the winning team (NATO). We saved a lot of European lives in WWII and you don't know how important our role was in the world until you talk to an elderly West German who was alive during the war. Things got really bad in Germany towards the end of the war. Some remember some don't.
I think the real plan is for places like Germany and Italy and Japan are out of sight out of mind. There are really only a handful of American military bases scattered through the world these days.
doesn't even seem to matter which party is in control in Washington, the troops remain overseas.
Well of course they do. They have to protect the mineral rights and rebuilding contracts that many international companies hold so dear. Some of which are not American. I know it's hard to think there are robber barons in Europe, but there are and many multinational companies with contracts in the stan or Iraq are based in Europe. Thats why they also send troops. It wouldn't be legal for a company to wage war with civilian employees so they use the military to protect corporate interests.
The cold war is far from over? Thats nice.....maybe those countries should pay for their own darn defense, NOT US. If they want our troops there, they should pay to feed them and supply them-not us.
They have drawn down significantly since the 80's. However, a permanent presence has been established by law.
I know in Germany's case it's a slippery slope, it's about local economies as well as training and foreign relations. On one hand old Germans ***** about jet noise, but their neighbor is probably connected to the base in someway. Not only that they ***** about regular airplane noise also so it's not like the us military is any more or less a target. One thing I have learned is older Germans hate jet noise.
A lot of business owners and regular citizens were upset when they closed down Bitburg. Something like 1000 jobs were lost directly and another 1000 indirectly. Many business that catered to Americans, mainly restaurants bars and auto repair facilities were making a lot less money or closed down entirely.
I don't have figures this is just what my landlord who is an elderly German who used to work on Bitburg AB told me. At the time he owned 3 homes that he rented out to American soldiers to supplement income and ultimately lead to financial stability in retirement. When Bitburg closed he had to rent to Germans at a much lower rate and eventually lost one of his rental homes and then another. Many people were forced to take lower paying local jobs.
So small out of the way places have a lot of economic stake in the American military bases. Specifically Bitburg and Wittlich in the case of Spangdahlem AB. and Kaiserslautern in the case of Ramstein/Baumholder. Also indifference, 99.11% of Germany couldn't give two craps about the military bases tucked away in a deep corner of the German equivalent of Kentucky.
These countries are perfectly capable of defending themselves.
No they aren't. The cold war is "over" but Russia could De-stabilize very quickly. Plus we train them. My Job in the military was to teach Netherlands Belgium and Germany how to things the US military way. Thier pilots are trained in the United States using American warplanes and trainer jets.
We have pressing problems in this country that need our focus.
They would just waste the money somewhere else. Besides what other country can install military installations in other countries? What country controls the world's economy? What country's language dominates business and politics? What country has 300 million people and vast resources? What countries media dominates the world? These are all show of dominance factors. Most players of games like to be on the winning team (NATO). We saved a lot of European lives in WWII and you don't know how important our role was in the world until you talk to an elderly West German who was alive during the war. Things got really bad in Germany towards the end of the war. Some remember some don't.
I think the real plan is for places like Germany and Italy and Japan are out of sight out of mind. There are really only a handful of American military bases scattered through the world these days.
doesn't even seem to matter which party is in control in Washington, the troops remain overseas.
Well of course they do. They have to protect the mineral rights and rebuilding contracts that many international companies hold so dear. Some of which are not American. I know it's hard to think there are robber barons in Europe, but there are and many multinational companies with contracts in the stan or Iraq are based in Europe. Thats why they also send troops. It wouldn't be legal for a company to wage war with civilian employees so they use the military to protect corporate interests.
I see things quite differently. If you did a poll today, most Germans would like to get rid of those military bases as Germans don't trust Americans anymore, not least since the Snowden leaks.
Those few towns close to them would suffer a bit for a few years, there would be local lamenting as is typical for humans who by nature are egoistic, but you have to see the bigger picture. Germany's economy is very strong, any losses due to Americans leaving would be peanuts to Germany.
Russia won't destabilize, it is a country and not the Soviet Union, which was an artificial construct. Russia is doing fine, actually.
The US does not control the world economy; the language is Britain's, not the US', which only adopted it from Britain; and where it really matters people speak their own languages anyway; India and China have more than 300 million people, way more; not enough space here to list all the countries with vast resources; US media do not dominate the world, except for two newspapers they actually have a terrible reputation; all allies together won the war, Russia did most of the work; in short, your view of your country is typical of Americans and totally unrealistic. Your country is a mess, and it is interesting to note that Germany for instance is doing particularly well where it is very different from the US (unions, educational system, social security system, etc.), the rule of thumb is, the American way is always the wrong way. If a country has a problem, look how the US tackles that problems and then do exactly the opposite and you are bound to solve the problem.
America had its few decades of fun, luckily others, most of all China, are rapidly emerging in every way now, in China's case I should say reemerging. The American party is coming to an end, more and more countries switch to other currencies, buy Chinese instead of American arms, etc., while the US' shallow bloated bubble economy is in trouble, its reputation and credibility ruined, its model character long gone, its infrastructure crumbling, its society a mess, its politics undermined by corporations and the military etc.
Eventually, the troop levels of Americans in these countries will gradually disappear as nationalism makes its return. I already saw some of this nationalism simmering beneath the surface when I was in Japan about a decade ago. Was a mere peep then, but it gets cranked up a notch every time China beats its chest -- China's going to rue the day it decided to taunt its centuries-old nemesis, because once Japan decides to start spending money on a war machine, believe me, they will go to the extreme.
Eventually, the troop levels of Americans in these countries will gradually disappear as nationalism makes its return. I already saw some of this nationalism simmering beneath the surface when I was in Japan about a decade ago. Was a mere peep then, but it gets cranked up a notch every time China beats its chest -- China's going to rue the day it decided to taunt its centuries-old nemesis, because once Japan decides to start spending money on a war machine, believe me, they will go to the extreme.
There was anti-American protest when US soldiers were accused of raping Japanese girls some time ago.
Japan and China are closely intertwined economically, any war would be foolish as many Japanese companies have factories in China. And unlike China, Japan has huge financial problems.
We need to decrease out military drastically and invest that money in the economy. The irony is the "little government" conservatives want a massive military. Theybe been trained to defend having a big military by chanting "Were the best! America is mighty! Big military ensures our safety!" You know what would make us the best? Having an economy that wasnt propped up by the military industrial complex.
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