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It is secularists, like you, who seem to have the problem with the freedom of speech. It is you who are trying to remove all mention of God, Christ, or anything Christian from our society, and telling Christians that it isn't appropriate outside the Church.
That is not accurate. Non-fundamentalist Christian's as well as those of other faiths, or no faiths at all, are saying we want equal footing. If you get to erect a monument in a public space, then so do we. Everyone is welcome to have God, Christ etc. in their society but no-one is welcome to force their God, Christ etc. on others outside an established religious meeting place or group.
Come on down to South Carolina and I will personally introduce you to a herd of Baptists who would love to see clergy running the country. One of the reasons I am no longer affiliated with them.Nor will you ever have enough Muslims to have a majority status and control elections, so relax. They are not all awake at night plotting to slit your throat in the grocery store. I worry a great deal more about the idiots with a half dozen AR-15s and a garage full of ammunition.
There are already plenty of anti-Obama threads. This is not one of them.
I don't care what they call themselves, or if they are a "herd." They are not mainstream Christianity, and likely not Christians at all, though they probably bellieve they are.
The truth is, there are many groups who call themselves "Christians" who are anything but. However to secularists, like yourself, you assume that they represent the real Church. They do not.
Do not discount the Muslim threat to our country. I think you need to do some study on Islam. Have they not now taken over most of the Middle East? Have you ever studied the history of the Crusades, which began as a result of the Muslim hordes invading and conqueroring much of Europe, and forcing the conversion to Islam, under threat of death. In fact, they slaughtered millions. The threat to these Christian lands was so great, that the Christians finally realized that they had to take a stand against them, or they would be annihilated.
It is the reason the Muslims are here, to convert America to Islam, and defeat Christianity, just as they have done in the Middle East. It is Islam which desires theocracy, world wide.
My guess is that the monument will be removed from state grounds and the good congressmen of Oklahoma can get back to work on important things that impact their constituents rather symbolic gestures.
A Christmas display to celebrate what has been a National Holiday for probably all of our history (after all, America was founded by Christians — to deny this is to deny our history) is not a "monument" and it is not something to be "worshipped," nor do we worship it. It is a reminder of what Christmas is about, and it does not violate the "separation clause" (inappropriately so-called).
"Only happens in theocracies." So, you are claiming to be an expert on theocracies now? Which ones have you studied? What are your credentials?
It is secularists, like you, who seem to have the problem with the freedom of speech. It is you who are trying to remove all mention of God, Christ, or anything Christian from our society, and telling Christians that it isn't appropriate outside the Church. But, you have no problem with the other groups you mentioned, apparently. I think it's pretty clear that it is Christianity that you hate. Islam is okay with you, right? Even though it is they who are intent on coverting YOU to Islam, or killing you. But, this is not troubling to you, right?
Actually, Christmas was not declared a national holiday until 1870 and wasn't celebrated in ways that would be familiar to us until the mid 19th century.
In many parts of the Christian world, especially Protestant areas celebrations of Christmas were outlawed, and that includes parts of the US as well.
Please educate yourself on the history of Christmas before you make statements about Christmas that are not true.
Of course, any religion that espouses respect for the person and property of another is acceptable.
(Thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, etc)
Does not the Satanic religion espouse the opposite?
How else can one get d@mned, if not by doing evil?
Governments are not obligated to respect any religion that espouses doing evil to another and their property.
Ah, I see. So you want the government to decide which religion is "acceptable" and which is not. Are you sure you want to live in America? It sounds like you'd be happier in a theocracy, where the government decides which religion is acceptable and which religion is not.
Last edited by HeyJude514; 12-08-2013 at 07:46 AM..
I love your responses, nononsenseguy. They always make me laugh.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nononsenseguy
A Christmas display to celebrate what has been a National Holiday for probably all of our history (after all, America was founded by Christians — to deny this is to deny our history) is not a "monument" and it is not something to be "worshipped," nor do we worship it. It is a reminder of what Christmas is about, and it does not violate the "separation clause" (inappropriately so-called).
Oops, you're in the wrong thread. This isn't the War on Christmas thread. Here we're talking about an actual monument to the 10 Commandments, which Christians actually do worship.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nononsenseguy
"Only happens in theocracies." So, you are claiming to be an expert on theocracies now? Which ones have you studied? What are your credentials?
Well, I certainly wouldn't look to you as an expert, as you believe government property should display the holiday decorations of one religion, and one religion only. (And yeah, that only happens in theocracies. Or are you okay with government property prominently displaying things from Islamic holidays as well?)
Quote:
Originally Posted by nononsenseguy
It is secularists, like you, who seem to have the problem with the freedom of speech.
You told me that if I didn't agree with you, I should "shut my piehole" and then you blather on about how everyone else is trying to take away your freedom of speech. You are a hoot. Your responses are never too bright, but they are always good for a laugh.
Last edited by HeyJude514; 12-08-2013 at 07:47 AM..
...being an atheist will not protect you if a couple of Muslim maniacs choose to blow up the plane your azz is on.
Of course, neither will being a Christian, or Hindu or Shintoist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight
My guess is that the monument will be removed from state grounds and the good congressmen of Oklahoma can get back to work on important things that impact their constituents rather symbolic gestures.
Sheesh. Believe me, we do not want the clowns in the Oklahoma legislature trying to work on anything serious. Most of them are complete imbeciles.
How many times does this kind of thing have to happen before politicians learn?
Quote:
Under the bill, called the Minimim Foundations Program and passed into law last week by the Louisiana legislature, students at failing public high schools can use government-paid vouchers to enroll in alternate schools -- including those that are private or religiously affiliated. The program represents a bold endeavor by the state to privatize public education.
Stakes escalated last week when, to the frustration of some lawmakers, the Islamic School of Greater New Orleans applied for federal funds under the voucher program. Republican state Rep. Kenneth Havard objected to the Islamic School's request for 38 government-paid student vouchers, saying he opposed any bill that "will fund Islamic teaching," the Associated Press reports.
The Florida legislature has approved and sent to the governor legislation that would allow students to deliver “inspirational messages” of their own choosing at school events that, according to critics, could include Satanic messages.
The bill is now in the hands of Gov. Rick Scott, who, according to the Orlando Sentinel, hasn’t promised to sign the bill, but he did say this: “I haven’t seen the bill, but I believe in Jesus Christ, and I believe individuals should have a right to say a prayer.”
During debate on the bill this week in the legislature, the Sentinel reported, one Democratic critic of the bill, Rep. Jeff Clemons, read from the “Aryan Satanic Manifesto.” When he asked Rep. Charles Van Zant, a Republican who has pushed the legislation for years, if he thought such passages should be labeled “inspirational,” Van Zant said: “That would be the students’ prerogative because of our constitutional freedom of speech.”
Of course, any religion that espouses respect for the person and property of another is acceptable.
(Thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, etc)
Does not the Satanic religion espouse the opposite?
How else can one get d@mned, if not by doing evil?
You be the judge. Here are the tenets of this Satanist Church:
Strive to act with compassion and reciprocity toward all creatures in accordance with reason.
The struggle for justice is an ongoing pursuit.
People are fallible, and although we should all try to do our best, poor judgment is inevitable. If we make a mistake, we should do our best to rectify it, and resolve any harm that may have been caused by our misdeeds.
One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone.
Beliefs should conform to our best scientific understanding of the world. We should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit our beliefs.
The freedoms of others should be respected, even the freedom to offend. To willfully encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forego your own.
There are, and will continue to be, things unknown and misunderstood. We must recognize this, never taking pride in ignorance, never assuming the unknown to be forever unknowable.
While proselytizing might have noble intent, it is not acceptable to coerce or push your beliefs on others. It is always best to lead by example.
Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion and wisdom should always prevail over the written or spoken word.
Quote:
Governments are not obligated to respect any religion that espouses doing evil to another and their property.
Where are you getting this from? Did I miss that part of the 1st Amendment? In my view, many brands of Christianity, Islam, etc, espouse treating gay people with malice and evil. Does that mean the government can refuse to acknowledge them as a legitimate religion?
You be the judge. Here are the tenets of this Satanist Church:
Strive to act with compassion and reciprocity toward all creatures in accordance with reason.
The struggle for justice is an ongoing pursuit.
People are fallible, and although we should all try to do our best, poor judgment is inevitable. If we make a mistake, we should do our best to rectify it, and resolve any harm that may have been caused by our misdeeds.
One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone.
Beliefs should conform to our best scientific understanding of the world. We should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit our beliefs.
The freedoms of others should be respected, even the freedom to offend. To willfully encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forego your own.
There are, and will continue to be, things unknown and misunderstood. We must recognize this, never taking pride in ignorance, never assuming the unknown to be forever unknowable.
While proselytizing might have noble intent, it is not acceptable to coerce or push your beliefs on others. It is always best to lead by example.
Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion and wisdom should always prevail over the written or spoken word.
Wow, how very "evil."
Quote:
Originally Posted by hammertime33
Where are you getting this from? Did I miss that part of the 1st Amendment? In my view, many brands of Christianity, Islam, etc, espouse treating gay people with malice and evil. Does that mean the government can refuse to acknowledge them as a legitimate religion?
You missed the part where the first amendment only applies to Christians. Ask nononsenseguy. He'll tell you all about it.
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