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Old 02-04-2014, 08:56 AM
 
Location: St Paul
7,713 posts, read 4,749,163 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamme73 View Post
I think that much like king worship. Totalitarian regimes require worship of the leader with religious zealotry. In fact, in North Korea I think the current leader's grandfather was considered to be a GOD who would never die amongst the people of North Korea. At least that was what I saw on a documentary about North Korea.

Again, of the two political parties, which one worships a leader by the name of Ronald Reagan? Which one invokes Ronald Reagan's name like a religious chant election after election?

Democrats don't do that. They don't invoke the name of FDR, or Kennedy, or Clinton, or any President really. No Democrat goes around saying I am an FDR Democrat or a Kennedy Democrat.

conservatives go around saying I am a Reagan Republican. Republican Presidential candidates still bring up Reagan's name repeatedly in appearances and debates.

Which political party worships the nation's founders to fetishization?

American conservatives are a worshipping bunch period.
This is like a Irish Protestant saying only Catholics are religious.
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Old 02-04-2014, 08:58 AM
 
Location: Florida
23,795 posts, read 13,265,578 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamme73 View Post
You could do this kind of differentiation of the political parties on a number of levels, and the reality leads one to reach the same conclusion.

The Democratic party is much more diverse than the conservative party.

This means generally there is much more disagreement amongst Democrats than there are disagreements amongst conservatives.

This means that conservatives are much more unified in their beliefs than the Democratic party.
I agree that the dems are comprised of a more diverse group of people and demographics. I agree that the republicans are comprised of a more homogenous group of people.

However, I do not agree that this means the republicans are unified in any way shape or form. Being of the same race and religion does not equal unified at all. For example, the religious right and the moderate republicans may belong to similar religious sects, but the degree to which the religious right allows their religion to rule their political beliefs is much stronger than that of the moderate republicans. During the 2012 elections, the dems were a great deal more unified than the republicans and remain so. The republicans are totally divided into factions and may in fact have a civil war brewing among themselves.
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Old 02-04-2014, 09:04 AM
 
Location: Florida
23,795 posts, read 13,265,578 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockside View Post
Peggy Noonan said it best when she wrote “Beware the politically obsessed. They are often bright and interesting, but they have something missing in their natures; there is a hole, an empty place, and they use politics to fill it up. It leaves them somehow misshapen.”
Peggy Noonan also said she was sure that Mitt would win the presidential election, and she is an extremely politically obsessed person herself, so that may be where she derives her "insights" regarding political obsession.
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Old 02-04-2014, 09:11 AM
 
8,391 posts, read 6,297,969 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason3000 View Post
This is like a Irish Protestant saying only Catholics are religious.
No it's not. The political parties have a lot of similarities, but they are different.

It is easy to pretend that they are the same and that saying that one is blah, blah is just a partisan criticism.

The Democratic party is a much more diverse coalition of voters, who all have a different history of treatment in this nation. This means something tangible in how both parties have to view past leaders and American history.

For example

Black Americans are a huge part of the Democratic coalition, objectively this means a huge percentage of the Democratic coalition are Americans who until very recently in historical terms were mistreated by this federal government and nearly all elected officials who came before.

This group of voters doesn't view old dead Presidents in the same manner. This means that coming out and touting FDR or Kennedy or Woodrow Wilson or Truman or etc isn't going to be just rah, rah, rah weren't those men great, because for black Americans they weren't in many ways.

Do you see what I am getting at now?

The Democratic party can't worship its old dead Presidents in the same manner, can't worship the founders in the same manner because of the history of a huge part of its political coalition.

The conservative party doesn't have that issue because its coalition is much more monolithic.
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Old 02-04-2014, 09:16 AM
 
6,565 posts, read 14,297,629 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamme73 View Post
This is just not the truth.

The Democratic party is the middle ground. And I don't view this as a particularly good thing about the Democratic party.

Based on their public policy positions, the political leadership of the Democratic party is mostly moderate or center left is the term.

President Obama is a moderate. Bill Clinton is a moderate. Hillary Clinton is a moderate. Joe Biden is a moderate. The Democratic party is dominated by moderate not very ideological elected officials especially at the national level.

Being too liberal is what is seen as a problem for Democrats amongst democrats.

The conservative party is dominated by conservatives. Not being conservative enough is what is seen as a problem for republicans.
It depends what issue we're referring to I suppose, but I get what you mean... For the Dems the FAR left is a bit demonized by mainstream Democrats while for the GOP it seems the it IS the FAR Right doing the "demonizing" of their more centrist party members...
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Old 02-04-2014, 09:19 AM
 
8,391 posts, read 6,297,969 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigma777 View Post
I agree that the dems are comprised of a more diverse group of people and demographics. I agree that the republicans are comprised of a more homogenous group of people.

However, I do not agree that this means the republicans are unified in any way shape or form. Being of the same race and religion does not equal unified at all. For example, the religious right and the moderate republicans may belong to similar religious sects, but the degree to which the religious right allows their religion to rule their political beliefs is much stronger than that of the moderate republicans. During the 2012 elections, the dems were a great deal more unified than the republicans and remain so. The republicans are totally divided into factions and may in fact have a civil war brewing among themselves.
I understand your point, but I disagree. The conservative civil war is not over policy, but over tactics.

Take the government shutdown, Many conservatives were P/O at other conservatives because one group of conservatives wanted to repeal Obamacare, but didn't want to shut down the government to do it, and the other set of conservatives wanted to repeal Obamacare and wanted to shut down the government over Obamacare.

That's not a policy dispute that is a dispute over tactics and that is the essential nature of the conservative civil war. They still all agree with one another they just disagree on tactics.

Also, your larger point is just wrong. Of course having a political party dominated by people who the same ethnicity, with same religious beliefs is going to result in a much more unified viewpoint than having a political party that is the opposite of that.
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Old 02-04-2014, 09:27 AM
 
8,391 posts, read 6,297,969 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhett_Butler View Post
It depends what issue we're referring to I suppose, but I get what you mean... For the Dems the FAR left is a bit demonized by mainstream Democrats while for the GOP it seems the it IS the FAR Right doing the "demonizing" of their more centrist party members...
There really isn't a far left in the Democratic party.

When I think of someone who is far left, I can't picture one Democratic elected official at the national level. Probably the most famous liberals are Pelosi and Warren, but those are two straight rich white grandmothers.

And they are considered far left in this nation. Sure Pelosi with her wealth wants to radically alter American, it is an absurd notion. And Warren being a former Harvard Professor is just a seething radical herself.

Again, the manner in which we view who is left and who is right is very skewed.

I read bloggers, writers whom I consider far left and they have little influence in the Democratic party.

In the conservative party, there are a lot of far right wing nuts who are apart of the political power of the party.
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Old 02-04-2014, 09:34 AM
 
12,270 posts, read 11,331,859 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigma777 View Post
Peggy Noonan also said she was sure that Mitt would win the presidential election, and she is an extremely politically obsessed person herself, so that may be where she derives her "insights" regarding political obsession.
So what? A lot of people though Mitt was going to win. Are you actually trying to invalidate her comment with a flip one-off?
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Old 02-04-2014, 09:36 AM
 
6,565 posts, read 14,297,629 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamme73 View Post
There really isn't a far left in the Democratic party.

When I think of someone who is far left, I can't picture one Democratic elected official at the national level. Probably the most famous liberals are Pelosi and Warren, but those are two straight rich white grandmothers.

And they are considered far left in this nation. Sure Pelosi with her wealth wants to radically alter American, it is an absurd notion. And Warren being a former Harvard Professor is just a seething radical herself.

Again, the manner in which we view who is left and who is right is very skewed.

I read bloggers, writers whom I consider far left and they have little influence in the Democratic party.

In the conservative party, there are a lot of far right wing nuts who are apart of the political power of the party.
You need to put everyone on the U.S. political scale though in order to be fair... Whomever is the MOST liberal is considered "Far Left" in this case... And yes, they are quite a bit more liberal than say, a Mark Warner....
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Old 02-04-2014, 09:48 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia
11,998 posts, read 12,938,715 times
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Being a member of either of the dominant political parties is more akin to being a member of a cult where everyone kills themselves.

I wouldn't say religion because that's not crazy enough.
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