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Simply a fairy tale brief. YOu don't get to use your opinion. You get to use what you have evidence of...
There is no evidence that Lerner has lied in any matter of fact. If she does you would then have a basis for sending her to jail.
Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganmoon
You are a blind partisan.
-She claimed that the inappropriate line level targeting was started by line level employees in Cincinnati, but:
A) The line level Cincinnati employees produced evidence and emails that DC told them to do it.
B) Targeting occurred from coast to coast, line level people in Cincinnati can't order offices coast to coast to do a policy shift.
C) An IRS attorney said the order to target came from an Obama appointee/donor in DC.
D) Lerner's own office with her name on the papers were targeting.
-Lerner said the targeting and inappropriate questions were wrong and had already stopped, yet months afterward her office was still targeting, asking inappropriate questions, and all with her name attached to the sheets.
WAKE UP and put your country and freedom above silly politicians.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvoc
You are a blind partisan.
Lerner et al were quite guilty.
But the offense was bureaucratic ineptitude. The whole concept of political action by a 501(c)(4) is against the law. And the statute language is plain and obvious.
The IRS allowed such action by regulation. That was an illegal act. Lerner et al attempted to develop a fix in the light of this illegal act. They did so with great ineptitude.
So let us keep in mind that the whole thing was flatly illegal. And that is actually the sin of the IRS.
Now wake up and put your country and its laws ahead of the blind political goals of the right wing.
Have you no honesty? Has Obama rotted out your integrity?
You point blank said there was no evidence that Lerner has lied. I provided evidence that she has lied. So you change your argument - and move the goal posts to a different argument.
It is a sad day that people like you place a corrupt politician above the constitution, rule of law, and justice.
But the offense was bureaucratic ineptitude. The whole concept of political action by a 501(c)(4) is against the law. And the statute language is plain and obvious.
The IRS allowed such action by regulation. That was an illegal act. Lerner et al attempted to develop a fix in the light of this illegal act. They did so with great ineptitude.
So let us keep in mind that the whole thing was flatly illegal. And that is actually the sin of the IRS.
Now wake up and put your country and its laws ahead of the blind political goals of the right wing.
What about the IRS handing out the confidential documents contained in the applications from those conservative groups, and giving it to outside federal agencies, and to political action groups on the left? What about singling out the people for IRS audits, who were named as donors on the applications by those conservative groups.
So John Koskinen who had previously testified under oath that they had all of Lerner's emails less than a year ago and were reviewing them, now can't remember who told him that the emails were lost...
Version A
Let me see, "Congress has been after my a*s to give them Lois Lehner's e-mails, and I am just told by someone that her hard drive failed, was pulled, and destroyed." After I picked myself off the floor, I would have politely thanked someone for the information."
Version B
Actually, as it happened, I would have s**t my pants, date stamped my underwear, and opened a file called "the worst day of my life."
Not one smigen of corruption Mr.Obama...right ...
One commissioner pleads the 5th...the new one has been drinking one doesn't remember a thing!
Next these two will come up missing along with their cronies in crime and Obama will state they were Heaven's Gate members and a comet...yeah a comet took them home!
The American sheeple will believe anything!
7 different IRS employees ALL under investigation for illegal activities had their emails "lost" literally just days after Congressman David Camp asked the IRS for emails and to answer other questions back in 2011.
Some of the illegal activity was clearly coming out of Lerner's office - some of it had her name on it - literally. There is also evidence that Lerner gave confidential IRS tax data of conservatives to other people/groups illegally.
If you immunize Lerner, she can still lie - like she has been lying. Lerner had already factually lied.
If you want to talk about good faith, why hasn't Eric Holder done his job and appointed someone by now? Why did Obama claim that there wasn't even a smidgen of corruption BEFORE the investigation even gets the evidence that his administration is stonewalling?
Yes, it is politics. Obama's administration illegally used the IRS to target conservatives to silence them in the build up to the 2012 election and Democrats are fine with stonewalling to protect Obama.
Most Democrats clearly favor politics over the law of the land and justice.
Quick summery of Lois Lerner just so we don't lose the bigger picture:
-Her emails get lost due to a hard drive crash, just after she learns that Republicans are on to her targeting scheme.
-The only emails lost are the ones coincidentally pertinent to the investigation in regards to other alleged conspirators: White House, Democrats Congress Members, etc...
-The only emails lost are the ones coincidentally pertinent to the investigation in regards to the timeline, 2009 to 2011. So if the email was not pertinent to the investigation by time or recipient, it was not lost...how convenient.
-She admits that the targeting was wrong, yet it does continue after she says it has stopped.
-She admits that the IRS was asking inappropriate questions (ie what are your members' prayers about), but the IRS kept asking these inappropriate questions from her very own office, with her name on it AFTER she had said it was wrong and had already stopped.
-She takes the 5th after saying she was innocent.
-She claims that she was pressured to do something about Tea Party money in the election.
-She sent an email out saying that the Tea Party matter was dangerous and was hoping that another branch of government could save the day.
-She claimed that the inappropriate line level targeting was started by line level employees in Cincinnati, but:
A) The line level Cincinnati employees produced evidence that DC told them to do it.
B) Targeting occurred from coast to coast, line level people in Cincinnati can't order offices coast to coast to do a policy shift.
C) An IRS attorney said the order to target came from an Obama appointee in DC
-Lois Lerner against regulations improperly contacted the FEC directly about conservative groups.
Side related matters:
-Under oath the IRS Commissioner said he had all of Lenrner's emails saved to a server - now we are to believe that they were never saved to a server, but to a single hard drive.
-The IRS knew the computer crashed since 2011, but waited well over a year to mention it when they were forced to hand them over, knowing that congress wanted the emails.
-Of the groups flagged for using conservative sounding words, 83% were conservative. Of those groups flagged 100% of the groups actually targeted with an audit were conservative and all of these groups were asked inappropriate questions. How is it that only conservative groups were audited with this program?
-President Obama said there was not a smidgen of corruption BEFORE the investigation and evidence was gathered.....seems a bit premature from a law professor who should know how these things work.
- The IRS illegally leaked confidential IRS data of conservatives to left-leaning media.
-IRS employees were breaking the rules by campaigning for Obama on the job to citizens dealing with the IRS.
How does anyone with a brain and integrity NOT think that this reeks to high heaven?
Assume there is an IRS cover-up (like Watergate, don't worry about the break-in, worry about the conspiracy to cover-up the crime). Many federal employees would have to be involved in destroying evidence. If the federal oversight committee wants to start squeezing everyone that would have to be involved to actively go into the systems with administrative privileges to delete Lerner files, truth will out.
But I think it's not in Congress' interest to destroy the credibility of the IRS. So after a bit, a pass will be given, and a favor earned. Business as usual.
Yes, a systemic backup is typical of any organization.
I agree with this. The main business is to collect tax payer money and in the end that's the only thing government is interested in.
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A come to Jesus moment
