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Old 08-02-2014, 10:56 PM
 
Location: OC/LA
3,830 posts, read 4,664,302 times
Reputation: 2214

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ellemint View Post
The U.S. and Mexico are not engaged in conflict.
Ok. Ukraine and Russia?

 
Old 08-02-2014, 11:22 PM
 
10,553 posts, read 9,651,677 times
Reputation: 4784
Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperionGap View Post
Ok. Ukraine and Russia?

Maybe I'm getting confused here. But at the Canadian /American border, the Americans have their border control on their side, and the Canadians have their own on their side.

In Gaza, only the Israeli's control the border exit/entry, the checkpoints are used strategically and punitively to limit the movements, restrict the freedom of, and hold power over the Palestinians of Gaza. It's an apartheid system, not a regular border.
 
Old 08-02-2014, 11:57 PM
 
13,212 posts, read 21,832,803 times
Reputation: 14130
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellemint View Post
In Gaza, only the Israeli's control the border exit/entry, the checkpoints are used strategically and punitively to limit the movements, restrict the freedom of, and hold power over the Palestinians of Gaza. It's an apartheid system, not a regular border.
It's not an apartheid system, it's self defense! Palestinians were blowing up buses and markets by the dozens before Israel clamped down on the border. And guess what? It stopped the suicide bombers. Of course then they started in with the rockets.

Do you know anything about the tunnels that were discovered? There's a whole underground city going from Gaza to under the Israel border towns. They had tunnels forking to both ends of a town so that they could take the entire town with no escape route. They had one tunnel full of explosives under a Kindergarten for Christ's sake. They were set to murder thousands of Israel's on the Jewish New Year. These are ruthless killers with the sole purpose to murder as many civilians as possible. And yet you accuse Israel of targeting civilians because they're trying to route out this human cancer scum that you defend who hide behind their women and children? You have no logic and no human compassion. You are simply a propaganda machine.

Last edited by kdog; 08-03-2014 at 12:06 AM..
 
Old 08-03-2014, 12:55 AM
 
Location: OC/LA
3,830 posts, read 4,664,302 times
Reputation: 2214
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellemint View Post
Maybe I'm getting confused here. But at the Canadian /American border, the Americans have their border control on their side, and the Canadians have their own on their side.

In Gaza, only the Israeli's control the border exit/entry, the checkpoints are used strategically and punitively to limit the movements, restrict the freedom of, and hold power over the Palestinians of Gaza. It's an apartheid system, not a regular border.
No they aren't. They're to stop Hamas from importing missiles and exporting suicide bombers. I know it's hard, but try and think for once.
 
Old 08-03-2014, 04:07 AM
 
Location: Metro Phoenix
11,039 posts, read 16,866,369 times
Reputation: 12950
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellemint View Post
In Gaza, only the Israeli's control the border exit/entry, the checkpoints are used strategically and punitively to limit the movements, restrict the freedom of, and hold power over the Palestinians of Gaza. It's an apartheid system, not a regular border.
People always go on about this, but there's a simple, small chain of events here:

1. Israeli civilians get bombed in civilian areas repeatedly, ad nauseum, for decades.
2. Israel says it's going to build a wall and block Palestinians from entering Israel unless they have business there.
3. Half of the world cries out, calls it an "apartheid" wall, gets their banners equating the Star of David to the swastika back out, and further claims that it won't even do anything to stem the tide of terrorist attacks happening.
4. Israel builds the wall and restricts Palestinians from entering Israel unless they have business being there and have been approved to do so.
5. The number of bombings falls to practically zero.

Simultaneously, Israel withdraws from Gaza and the West Bank and lets them govern themselves. The West Bank, under Abbas, makes at least some attempt to move forward. Gaza, under Hamas, descends into an orgy of violence as Fatah/PLO members and supporters are murdered. Infrastructure is dismantled where necessary and ignored otherwise so that Hamas can militarize Gaza. Unable to send bombers to kill people, they develop rockets and launch them unrelentingly at Israel instead while building tunnels with which to wage attacks and kidnappings upon them.

If Israel tore down the wall and opened their borders as you and the Palestinians ask, what do you think would happen?

Perhaps you, individually, think that this would lead to peace and unity between the two peoples.

I think that you as used above, in the macro, rhetorical sense, can understand that it would go back to #1: Israeli civilians get bombed in civilian areas repeatedly, ad nauseum, for decades.

If the Gazans stopped trying to use their border crossings to import weaponry or the materials to create an offensive military infrastructure, then Israel wouldn't have any reason to keep them closed. It costs them money, resources, and people to keep these crossings closed and guarded. They'd certainly rather not. But, considering that when they are open, their people die, what choice do they have?

Once again... blame Hamas. This is their fault through and through.
 
Old 08-03-2014, 05:59 AM
 
43,668 posts, read 44,406,521 times
Reputation: 20577
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellemint View Post
Maybe I'm getting confused here. But at the Canadian /American border, the Americans have their border control on their side, and the Canadians have their own on their side.

In Gaza, only the Israeli's control the border exit/entry, the checkpoints are used strategically and punitively to limit the movements, restrict the freedom of, and hold power over the Palestinians of Gaza. It's an apartheid system, not a regular border.
Egypt has a border with Gaza which it controls all the exit/entry through it. So your statement is completely inaccurate.
 
Old 08-03-2014, 08:07 AM
 
Location: The Ranch in Olam Haba
23,707 posts, read 30,753,834 times
Reputation: 9985
Palestinian factions release demands for Gaza ceasefire
Palestinian factions release demands for Gaza ceasefire - Israel News, Ynetnews

Quote:
Immediate ceasefire and Israel withdrawal from the Gaza Strip
End to blockade and opening of crossings for people and merchandise
Extending the freedom of movement for sailors to 12 nautical miles
Cancelling the 'safety strip' around the Gaza border
Establishment of an airport and a seaport in Gaza
Rehabilitation of the Strip and a promise of emergency aid with the help of an international committee of donors to be convened by the Palestinian unity government
The release of the fourth wave of Palestinian security detainees originally promised by Israel to PA
Release of Shalit deal prisoners who were rearrested during IDF Operation Brother's Keeper and the release of Palestinian Legislative Council members also arrested in the op
 
Old 08-03-2014, 09:31 AM
 
Location: Baltimore
2,423 posts, read 2,093,332 times
Reputation: 767
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellemint View Post
I'm talking about the Balfour Declaration 1917:

"Balfour supported the establishment of a Jewish homeland in the area known as Palestine – with safeguards for the "rights of non-Jewish communities in Palestine". THe Jewish community saw this as Great Britain’s support for a Jewish homeland.

However, from a Palestinian Arab point of view, the same area had been promised to them for siding with the Allies in World War One and fighting against the Turks who were fighting on the side of the Germans.

Therefore, when Britain was given Palestine to govern as a League of Nation's mandate at the end of the war, both the Jews and the Arabs believed that they had been betrayed as both believed that they had been promised the same piece of land.

After 1918, politics in the Middle East was to become a lot more complicated as many Jews took the Balfour Declaration as read and emigrated to Palestine. The Arabs there saw the increasing number of Jews moving to the region as a threat to their way of life and problems quickly multiplied."


The Balfour Declaration of 1917


A good slideshow on the history of that region:

Israel and the Palestinians - a history | guardian.co.uk | guardian.co.uk
Never heard of the Arabs being promised the land of Palestine considering in the brethren of legal framework, Arab countries were created along side the jewish homeland in harmony. And I don't want to hear it. It was decided that Palestine would be a jewish state welcomed with Arab minorities, which jewish wisdom brought economy and life to the region and the Arab population. And obviously a Palestinian state was not in the hearts of Egypt and Jordan when they occupied the Palestinians and restricted their freedom. Instead of just accepting the partition plan to evoke an Arab state, they thought they can do better and went to war. When they lost they cried foul... Israel is here to stay, they need to get over it.
 
Old 08-03-2014, 09:32 AM
 
Location: Baltimore
2,423 posts, read 2,093,332 times
Reputation: 767
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellemint View Post
Maybe I'm getting confused here. But at the Canadian /American border, the Americans have their border control on their side, and the Canadians have their own on their side.

In Gaza, only the Israeli's control the border exit/entry, the checkpoints are used strategically and punitively to limit the movements, restrict the freedom of, and hold power over the Palestinians of Gaza. It's an apartheid system, not a regular border.
Considering Palestinians have working visas into Israel and that Fatah and Hamas are the respective governments, their is no occupation.
 
Old 08-03-2014, 02:47 PM
 
43,668 posts, read 44,406,521 times
Reputation: 20577
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellemint View Post
The Israeli army should be fighting the Hamas military---not massacring the civilians of Gaza. I saw a news story tonight, in which a mother and both her children had suffered burns from shelling in the south-west heavily-hit area of Gaza. The mother, and her two children, besides suffering burns on their bodies, all of them had had both legs amputed. Two of her children had also been killed. This is not fighting Hamas. This is a war crime.

It seems that if one analyzes Al Jazeera's casualty details report it indicates that so far most of those killed in Gaza have been young men of fighting age, not women, children or old people.

Gaza's Civilian Casualties: The Truth Is Very Different
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