Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The religious bigots have had the "special protection" from hate crimes all along....they were covered in the initial legislation! But when that protection is extended to cover a minority that has been the repeated target of violent assault, murder and harassment--all of a sudden they see it as "gays getting special rights".
I think they don't want gays to be covered and protected from henious crimes such as Matthew Shepard's murder, because they incite such violence and don't want to get prosecuted.
The point being, how exactly is this a choice? I can't wake up one day and "choose" to be gay. It's never gonna happen. Just like you could probably never choose to be an atheist, or a conservative could never choose to one day become a liberal. Your brain just isn't wired that way. Why is this so hard to understand?
Your post really helps the cause for choice. . . I could never choose to become a atheist or liberal??? Of course I could. I have an uncle who was a very active member in the democratic party in the Northeast. You know what? He made a choice and changed party affiliations.
And I have known several former atheists who became Christians. And there are several people on this very forum who will tell you they use to be Christians but made a choice to become an atheist (and you propose that they didn't have a choice??)
I thankfully wake up every day to choices, and I make them continually. . . some good and some bad.
And yes, we as humans are hard-wired in many ways but as far as my faith, my sexuality, and my political affiliation, thank goodness it is all by choice!
And I feel empathy for anyone who feels they don't have a choice in these things. It must make for a frustrating life.
The religious bigots have had the "special protection" from hate crimes all along....they were covered in the initial legislation! But when that protection is extended to cover a minority that has been the repeated target of violent assault, murder and harassment--all of a sudden they see it as "gays getting special rights".
I think they don't want gays to be covered and protected from henious crimes such as Matthew Shepard's murder, because they incite such violence and don't want to get prosecuted.
Conservatives say if the hate crime bill passes, then it will forbid preachers from giving sermons on the evils of homosexuality. Is this true?
And whoever is comparing sexuality to faith, they are completely different things. You are taught religion by your parents or environment. Sexuality is something that comes natural.
Your post really helps the cause for choice. . . I could never choose to become a atheist or liberal??? Of course I could. I have an uncle who was a very active member in the democratic party in the Northeast. You know what? He made a choice and changed party affiliations.
And I have known several former atheists who became Christians. And there are several people on this very forum who will tell you they use to be Christians but made a choice to become an atheist (and you propose that they didn't have a choice??)
I thankfully wake up every day to choices, and I make them continually. . . some good and some bad.
And yes, we as humans are hard-wired in many ways but as far as my faith, my sexuality, and my political affiliation, thank goodness it is all by choice! As a man who has been there, I have tremendous empathy for those who "choose to be straight".
And I feel empathy for anyone who feels they don't have a choice in these things. It must make for a frustrating life.
I never chose to be Gay in fact I struggled against it for years--but I was always a gay man--I knew that I was different since I was a little kid and when I hit adolescence I knew how I was different. I just wasn't attracted to women and my dreams and unconscious thoughts were about men. It was years before I allowed that to surface....but that doesnt mean I chose to be gay, it meant I finally allowed myself to live who I was since I was born.
I wonder how hard it has been on those who say they chose to be straight; do they have to recommit daily? Do they have an occassional relapse? How do they reward themselves for holding on to that commitment? These questions are facious and rhetorical. If they are truly straight they don't have to choose and if they do have to choose they are more like "a senator with a wide stance" than they may choose to reveal.
I have tremendous empathy for those who "choose" to be straight--I was there for a long time.
They probably just look at those straight boys who go gay during early adolescence just out of sexual curiosity, but later never touch guys again. How would anybody explain this phenomenon?
Conservatives say if the hate crime bill passes, then it will forbid preachers from giving sermons on the evils of homosexuality. Is this true?
And whoever is comparing sexuality to faith, they are completely different things. You are taught religion by your parents or environment. Sexuality is something that comes natural.
It is totally untrue and they know it. It would forbid them to conspire or to incite criminal behavior not from preaching their particular values, just as they can't incite men to beat women or incite people to go and paint swastika's on a temple.
I agree with you! You can be taught to surpress behavior but not your sexual orientation--it is god given.
I agree with you! You can be taught to surpress behavior but not your sexual orientation--it is god given.
Well we agree on something. Yes sexual orientation is God given.
[Mod Cut]
The last posters said I was misinformed and should "try reading another book beside the Bible. . . " Thanks but just because people read the Bible doesn't mean they arn't informed. And just because they disagree with you. Where's your much touted tolerance?
Thought dots were suppose to be for name-calling etc. I find it interesting that a homosexual starts this post and then when anyone disagrees the red-dots fly!
Last edited by ontheroad; 12-28-2007 at 06:08 AM..
Reason: Discussion of "red dots" should be in DM with Sr. Moderators; not on the board
Well we agree on something. Yes sexual orientation is God given.
Really? Then there has there been a laudable change of heart or mind, because what you were saying the other day was... You see, I am quite certain that it is a choice. Because the Bible clearly states it is a sin. And there is no way God would create one of his children this way and then condemn them for it. There is just no way. And any Christian would understand this.
Really? Then there has there been a laudable change of heart or mind, because what you were saying the other day was... You see, I am quite certain that it is a choice. Because the Bible clearly states it is a sin. And there is no way God would create one of his children this way and then condemn them for it. There is just no way. And any Christian would understand this.
No Sag, no change of heart. I don't let my "heart" rule what is right/wrong.
Sexual orientation is God-given. Sexual perversion is completely different.
No Sag, no change of heart. I don't let my "heart" rule what is right/wrong. Sexual orientation is God-given. Sexual perversion is completely different.
Being one of those liberals, maybe I'm just a little slow on the uptake here, but I see an essential tension between there is no way God would create one of his children this way on the one hand, and sexual orientation is God-given on the other. How are these statements to be reconciled?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
