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More liberal? lol! How do you figure? If anything, it's remaining the same.
My church is one of those liberal "mainline" Protestant churches, and it's growing, and large. And many of its members were once Catholic. From other former Catholics I've spoken to in my church, they chose our church becasue they like the traditional liturgy (similar to Catholic Mass) combined with progressive theology (gays are ok, birth control is your decision, not all the guilt, no crazy abortion stance, etc.)
I've spoken to a few people who tried our church and didn't care for it and they said that while they agreed with the progressive theology, they thought it was "too stuffy" for them. These were people who came from a conservative Protestant evangelical background and while they disagreed with the conservative aspects of evangelicalism, they liked or felt comfortable in that style of worship, vs. the liturgical style of the Catholics/Episcopals/Lutherans/Presbyterians. So I think it really comes down to worship style.
Once you start seeing more evangelical Protestant non-denominational churches that are more liberal and accepting of gay people, you'll probably see another big "movement" within Christianity.
I see it much more Liberal and did a bit of reading about it. The current Pope came out against Capitalism and called for more redistribution of wealth. That is a very Liberal idea.
The Catholic Church I attend has 2 gay music directors,,openly gay people attend the church and their children attend the school. No big deal. I'm Conservative but I don't care if they are gay and don't see it as a big deal.
The biggest gripe I have with the Catholic Church is it's total failure to uplift the poor. They just want to redistribute the wealth despite that idea being a total failure. I'm tired of hearing about "social justice"..that is just a failed idea...did not work for the Communists, Socialist and it won't work for the Catholic Church either.
Absolutely not true any more. I sent both of my kids to Catholic grammar school when I lived in Chicago because I believed that myth. My daughter is a 4.0 student, so she did fine. My son didn't fare quite so well. When he got to H.S. and was having trouble in several subjects, his teacher asked him where he went to grammar school. When he told her, she said, "Ah, that explains it."
Meanwhile, the public school that was just a block away was scoring well above all the parochial schools in the neighborhood. It may have been true at one time, but Catholic schools are so strapped for money that the quality of education is suffering greatly as a result. I should have saved the enormous amount of money it cost and sent my kids to the public schools.
I agree. Catholic schools are not what they were years ago.
I live in the burbs and there are many Catholic Churches...but are having problems attracting people..why?...to me..they have become too Liberal...their message each week about "social justice"...stop by our "social justice" learning center...give us more money for overseas...it's a failure....people today work very hard for their money and are tired of giving it to failed ideas....the Pope spoke out against Capitalism why? What system has uplifted more people out of poverty?...social justice?..i.e. Socialism?....
Amen..I hope the Catholic Church either finds the light or just fades to black, you support the evils of Socialism you are an agent of darkness.
Its bad enough the have ruin the New East for at least the next 30 years...Jerks...
Any good passages about those who pervert, corrupt and or prostitute the word of God for personal gain?
I see it much more Liberal and did a bit of reading about it. The current Pope came out against Capitalism and called for more redistribution of wealth. That is a very Liberal idea.
The Catholic Church I attend has 2 gay music directors,,openly gay people attend the church and their children attend the school. No big deal. I'm Conservative but I don't care if they are gay and don't see it as a big deal.
The biggest gripe I have with the Catholic Church is it's total failure to uplift the poor. They just want to redistribute the wealth despite that idea being a total failure. I'm tired of hearing about "social justice"..that is just a failed idea...did not work for the Communists, Socialist and it won't work for the Catholic Church either.
They see them the same way the left does..As cattle now more...
You're obviously seeing something that I'm not seeing.
I was born and raised a Catholic too, and the decline in Catholicism has nothing to do with liberalism and everything to do with Catholics becoming more educated, therefore more skeptical.
Skepticism turns into outright criticism after a while...and then the dominoes start falling.
In other words, you are not a believer, and never have been. But the Catholic church has not practiced Biblical Christianity probably since it's founding, whenever that was. That's why we had the Reformation.
In the Catholic Mass, they offer Christ over and over again. The priest "calls him down from His throne" and places him on the alter to be sacrificed AGAIN, denying Christ's death on the cross ONCE for all.
Hebrews 7
Christ sacrificed himself ONCE for all. There is no need for him to be sacrificed again and again, daily, as the Mass pretends to do. They have re-established what God himself destroyed.
The Catholic Mass imitates the daily sacrifices of the Priesthood of the Old Testament, which Christ ended permanently by sacrificing himself ONCE for all. There is no need for any other sacrifice. The Priesthood came to an end with Christ's sacrifice. There are no more priests.
When its the liberal churches(Episcopal, Presbyterian, United Church of Christ) that are declining the most rapidly and Pentecostal churches and LDS are growing by leaps and bounds? Non-denominational churches are also growing really fast and these mostly lean conservative. Maybe our churches don't need to become more liberal- maybe they should become more conservative.
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I believe the author is accidentally correct... but misses the point, entirely.
Back when I was a kid, I had Lincoln logs, like lots of kids did, and I had lot of tinkertoys, too. My sets came with picture books of neat things to build. After building them a few times, I began to build whatever I wanted, and I let the book be lost. I had no use for it, I just made things up as I went. It started, of course, by me modifying what I saw, for my own reasons, and it didn't take long, as I no longer needed the book, nor did I care to simply reproduce someone else's designs.
Christianity has some fundamental concepts - 1, is that God is perfect. 2. Is that God is consistent and doesn't change. What His word is, is how things are, period.
Now, my tinkertoy book had simple stuff, and it wasn't a guide to a higher existence. So, I did not need it anymore.
I belong to a denomination whose fundamental beliefs have not changed since the founding of the church, are are not going to change. Why? Because come straight from the Bible itself, and are not interpretations of men. If we're going to assume we need to re-define what the Bible says... How and why is the Bible relevant?
Like my book for Lincoln Logs and Tinkertoys, it ceased to be relevant. When my intellect and capabilities matured, I no longer cared for those toys, i wanted RC cars and then the real thing. And I went from a lincoln log house, to a tent in the back yard to eventually, owning my own home. These things lost their relevance to my life.
A church is to be an organization to enable the association of believers in something that is higher than, beyond and above the mere philosophizing of a committee. Once a denomination rejects the premise that God is the higher power not above overruling, it is also an implicit questioning of everything.
At which point, the church has ceased progressing toward God, and has become a social club for the habitually religious, determined to not offend the membership into decline by rules or beliefs. At which point, those who reject that view of the church leave or drift away, and those who remain have nothing other than the club benefits to offer to those who they would ask to join. It ceases to have any relevance to those outside it who seek spiritual truth.
I live in the burbs and there are many Catholic Churches...but are having problems attracting people..why?...to me..they have become too Liberal...their message each week about "social justice"...stop by our "social justice" learning center...give us more money for overseas...it's a failure....people today work very hard for their money and are tired of giving it to failed ideas....the Pope spoke out against Capitalism why? What system has uplifted more people out of poverty?...social justice?..i.e. Socialism?....
Sermon on the Mount?
You probably wouldn't have a very high opinion of early Christian communities. They were about as communist (in the classical sense of it) as you could get.
Are mainstream churches becoming more progressive or more inclusive?
I believe the the second word is true, while the first is very debatable. Inclusiveness covers a very broad social array, and race and nationality are only parts of it.
Few churches are abandoning their orthodoxy, even if some of their traditions are changing a little.
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Originally Posted by totsuka
I live in the burbs and there are many Catholic Churches...but are having problems attracting people..why?...to me..they have become too Liberal...their message each week about "social justice"...stop by our "social justice" learning center...give us more money for overseas...it's a failure....people today work very hard for their money and are tired of giving it to failed ideas....the Pope spoke out against Capitalism why? What system has uplifted more people out of poverty?...social justice?..i.e. Socialism?....
My zip code has 25,000 people according to the 2010 census. there are 2 catholic churches in that zip code and 58 protestant.
The problem with capitalism is exactly what the pope said. many of its elements go against the teachings of Christ.
You are arguing that the church is to liberal because the church isnt being politically correct (capitalism good, everything else bad). That is sad.
I live in the burbs and there are many Catholic Churches...but are having problems attracting people..why?...to me..they have become too Liberal...their message each week about "social justice"...stop by our "social justice" learning center...give us more money for overseas...it's a failure....people today work very hard for their money and are tired of giving it to failed ideas....the Pope spoke out against Capitalism why? What system has uplifted more people out of poverty?...social justice?..i.e. Socialism?....
Sounds to me like those churches are doing exactly what Jesus commanded.
Problem isn't that churches have become more progressive, it's that people are less interested in what Jesus actually said and more interested in self-aggrandizement as preached by Joel Osteen and his ilk.
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In other words, you are not a believer, and never have been. But the Catholic church has not practiced Biblical Christianity probably since it's founding, whenever that was. That's why we had the Reformation.
