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What do you mean "no-skill, transitory"? I am going to beg you wouldn't be able to do a fast food job as it requires product knowledge, knowledge of POS, customer service and company's methods and procedures. What's that nonsense about fast food jobs being "no-skill"? They certainly require as much skill as letter carriers at post office yet nobody calls mail men no-skill, no ambition, transitory occupation....
They require no prior skills prior to being given the job, and the job itself has a very small set of tasks that can be learned in hours and mastered within days. That is the commonly understood definition of unskilled jobs. That's why they have low pay. The demand for the jobs is low and the supply of workers capable of performing that job adequately is absurdly high, given that it requires basic motor function and zero prior knowledge/training. Check the law of supply and demand for where price falls when demand is low and supply is high, then get back to me.
Your bet is moot because I've already held fast food jobs in several different capacities including management. PS - I never earned less than about 75% higher than the minimum wage of the time/place, even as a fry cook.
Given what I currently do for a living, I am pretty sure I could once again handle the rigors of fry cook.
They require no prior skills prior to being given the job, and the job itself has a very small set of tasks that can be learned in hours and mastered within days. That is the commonly understood definition of unskilled jobs.
Then most people in the military fall under this category.... Is military career a low skilled occupation?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian
That's why they have low pay. The demand for the jobs is low and the supply of workers capable of performing that job adequately is absurdly high, given that it requires basic motor function and zero prior knowledge/training. Check the law of supply and demand for where price falls when demand is low and supply is high, then get back to me.
Don't quote basic laws of economics when talking about complex socio-economic issues like minimum wage as it makes as much sense as trying to use high school algebra to explain quantum physics. C'mon.
There is huge supply of people in the job market due to high paying manufacturing jobs being outsourced to china but that has nothing to do with skills or education.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian
Your bet is moot because I've already held fast food jobs in several different capacities including management. PS - I never earned less than about 75% higher than the minimum wage of the time/place, even as a fry cook.
Given what I currently do for a living, I am pretty sure I could once again handle the rigors of fry cook.
So maybe you should stick to your field of expertise instead of talking about economics here?
Hey! I know how we could increase the minimum wage while still obeying economic reality instead of delusion of good intent. We could start a war and make sure that millions of working age people die. So with the sudden shortage of labor available, wages would be driven up. Damn! But then the purchasing power of the dollar would decrease because of the debt incurred to fund the war by borrowing/printing fiat...scratch that...
I guess we are back to "moral" extortion espoused by those who believe in a right to force people to pay above market value even though they themselves are not willing to pay above market value...
Skills and employer value are a continuum, not fixed points.
All these jobs you are demanding pay $15 are zero skill, transitory, starting jobs in a person's life. They are not destinations, but starting points. I've had tons of them, but do not have them any longer because I gained skills over time, thus increased my value over time.
You are advocating paying a transition, essentially temp, job that anyone can be trained for in hours as if it were a career choice. It isn't. Not all work is mean to provide compensation relevant to one standard of living. It simply does not work that way in any economic system, never has and never will. The jobs in question have low pay and high turnover. They're supposed to. The low pay and nature of the work are (or should be) a motivating force to move you along the skills/value continuum.
And if this is so important to you, I would ask once more - when you go to a fast food joint, do you estimate the difference in the actual pay vs what you think it should be and then tip appropriately? Do you tip the cashier at the grocery store to close the gap between minimum and liveable wages? If not...why not? Nobody will say not to your money, and you don't need anyone's permission or assistance to put your plan into action. So do you pay the difference between minimum and liveable for every un/low skilled worker who provides you a service?
Well isn't this just swell? Minimum wage jobs were careers once upon a time. Somewhere along the line the Reagonites polluted the country with their corporate allegience and neoliberal economics.
Any job when worked 40 hours a week should not be starvation wages. Period. There is nothing more to discuss. Yes, I pay the difference between minimum and livable for FF workers through welfare spending.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan
Just skip the formalities and promote pure communism so that we're all "equal".
That is what you want even though you haven't verbalized it.
They require no prior skills prior to being given the job, and the job itself has a very small set of tasks that can be learned in hours and mastered within days. That is the commonly understood definition of unskilled jobs. That's why they have low pay. The demand for the jobs is low and the supply of workers capable of performing that job adequately is absurdly high, given that it requires basic motor function and zero prior knowledge/training. Check the law of supply and demand for where price falls when demand is low and supply is high, then get back to me.
Your bet is moot because I've already held fast food jobs in several different capacities including management. PS - I never earned less than about 75% higher than the minimum wage of the time/place, even as a fry cook.
Given what I currently do for a living, I am pretty sure I could once again handle the rigors of fry cook.
I've never seen of known anyone hourly in fast food paid anywhere near 75% above minimum wage; my co-workers were pretty much limited to 25 cents above MW. When I delivered pizzas there was a corporate rule that an area supervisor's written approval was required to pay any hourly corporate store employee $1 or more above MW but I never saw that happen.
Well isn't this just swell? Minimum wage jobs were careers once upon a time. Somewhere along the line the Reagonites polluted the country with their corporate allegience and neoliberal economics.
Any job when worked 40 hours a week should not be starvation wages. Period. There is nothing more to discuss. Yes, I pay the difference between minimum and livable for FF workers through welfare spending.
Another strawman. I'm not a communist.
"Communism was a world in which each gave according to their abilities, and received according to their needs."
When you advocate communism, it makes your a communist.
No, the title and subject of the thread is workers in specific industries/sectors being paid more according to some "liveable wage" formulation independent of their value to the employer. Society has nothing to do with it, outside of your ever elusive goalposts.
Back to my list of choices in life. Ride a bike, get another job, get another job after that, get more skills, etc etc.
Good luck working three jobs without a car to get between jobs!
Is it not extortion to force a producer to increase the quality of a product above the fair market quality?
Not sure what your point is.
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