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Old 10-05-2014, 07:21 AM
 
7,800 posts, read 4,418,043 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by odanny View Post
Hearing conservatives argue American history is like hearing conservatives argue climate change: Both arguments are fact free and headache inducing.
Trouble with many conservatives is that they never realize when they have lost the argument. It's always déjà vu all over again with these folks.
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Old 10-05-2014, 07:22 AM
 
Location: *
13,240 posts, read 4,953,375 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harmen View Post
No, the goal of the USA in the American Civil War was to preserve the union, while the goal of the CSA was to defend their land.

Slavery had little to with the war from an objective standpoint.
I've already stated my personal opinion in a previous post.

Here's the long story short version, personally, I think slavery was the 'sine qua non' of the American Civil War, the essential or necessary condition, without which, in all probability, the War would not have been.
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Old 10-05-2014, 07:27 AM
 
Location: *
13,240 posts, read 4,953,375 times
Reputation: 3461
Quote:
Originally Posted by TreeBeard View Post
Trouble with many conservatives is that they never realize when they have lost the argument. It's always déjà vu all over again with these folks.
Do you ever have déjà vu?

Didn't you just ask me that?

Last edited by ChiGeekGuest; 10-05-2014 at 07:59 AM.. Reason: grammar
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Old 10-05-2014, 07:30 AM
 
2,003 posts, read 1,549,533 times
Reputation: 1102
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
I've already stated my personal opinion in a previous post.

Here's the long story short version, personally, I think slavery was the 'sine qua non' of the American Civil War, the essential or necessary condition, without which, in all probability, the War would not have been.
And the leaders of the Confederate states strenuously agreed with this.
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Old 10-05-2014, 07:41 AM
 
Location: Annandale, VA
5,094 posts, read 5,188,209 times
Reputation: 4233
Quote:
Originally Posted by TreeBeard View Post
Anyone who reads the speeches of Jefferson Davis and other successionists know that South'a right to keep slaves played the largest cause of the South's wanting to secede though not the only cause. that anyone would even hint that the south gave up slavery voluntarily is a stretch, yo pit it mildly.

Baloney. The seceded because they did not want the Federal government telling them they could not keep slaves. The states at the time were considered individual countries. The union was formed for shared defense only.
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Old 10-05-2014, 07:56 AM
 
Location: *
13,240 posts, read 4,953,375 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hadoken View Post
And the leaders of the Confederate states strenuously agreed with this.
They agreed that slavery was the necessary condition, without which, there would be no War?

If the question of slavery, unsettled at the US Constitutional Convention, was 'settled' with the perpetuation & expansion of institutionalized slavery?

If by States' Rights, the right they were most interested in was the right to own people as property?

Not really sure where you're going with this. Please clarify.
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Old 10-05-2014, 08:17 AM
 
Location: Boston, MA
14,499 posts, read 11,327,907 times
Reputation: 9016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harmen View Post
No, the goal of the USA in the American Civil War was to preserve the union, while the goal of the CSA was to defend their land.

Slavery had little to with the war from an objective standpoint.
The Civil War began by proxy in Kansas and Missouri over slavery. The issue of popular sovereignty was already decided with the Kansas-Nebraska Act. The only thing left to fight over was whether the state would admitted as slave or free.
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Old 10-05-2014, 08:18 AM
 
Location: Pine Grove,AL
29,635 posts, read 16,643,024 times
Reputation: 6077
Its 2014 and people are still debating the reasons the civil war was fought ?

Or is this one of those stupid meta arguments where the debate is actually over phrases ? You know, Slavery being a states right, there for the Confederate states seceded over states rights, and the civil war was then fought over their illegal secession ?
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Old 10-05-2014, 08:27 AM
 
69,368 posts, read 64,262,447 times
Reputation: 9383
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeyJude514 View Post
One of the Conservative Colorado school board members recently defended her position to rewrite history on the premise that history classes aren't teaching that America is exceptional because we ended slavery "voluntarily." Apparently, she slept through her U.S. History class when they covered those four bloody years of Civil War.
its seems YOU slept through history class because the Civil War was a battle to determine if states could leave the union.

The dispute about leaving the union was about slavery, but the Civil War wasnt.

RETURN TO SCHOOL.
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Old 10-05-2014, 08:28 AM
 
69,368 posts, read 64,262,447 times
Reputation: 9383
Quote:
Originally Posted by hammertime33 View Post
So does that mean you agree with this woman that the slave states gave up slavery voluntarily?
Many of the states had voted to abolish slavery far in advance of the Civil War..

The woman is correct.

Again they VOTED TO ABOLISH it..
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