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You obviously have no clue regarding assaults and violent crimes that happen all over this country every day! I'm a retired USAF officer. I served over SE Asia and experienced several life or death situations in the air and on the ground among hostile forces. So what? Not all of us spend our adult lives living in daddy's basement. Since you do, maybe you'll never need anything except your superior martial arts skills to survive. But to be so presumptuous as to think you know what anybody else needs in order to survive is just over the top! You don't know what other people may experience and what it may take for them to survive, whether you think you do or not.
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Originally Posted by neutrino78x
Which part? Yes I was a submariner, no you don't need a firearm for self defense on US soil in peacetime.
Well, again, that's in the wilderness where there are wild animals that might threaten you, that's not in an urban or suburban area. So that's a different subject. Nobody really cares if you have a hunting rifle with you while hunting, as long as you're not deliberately targeting endangered species or anything else weird like that.
No, it is not a different subject. You posted unequivocally how a firearm was not the only option, then bragged about your martial prowess.
"A firearm is not the only option for self defense for most people. I am reasonably confident in my ability to defend myself in situations which have a reasonable chance of happening."
In your protected and insulated environment you may think you are safe from harm, but in my real-world environment I know that I am not safe. I can be harmed in a number of ways, and so I take what I consider to be the appropriate steps to at least provide a fighting chance.
I certainly do not need you, who is obviously completely unfamiliar with my environment, telling me what I need or do not need to protect myself. That is for me to decide, no one else.
Why is it city critters always think they know what is best for everyone else? Are they truly that delusional?
I will make a deal with you:
You stay in your environment, and you will not be consumed; and
I will stay in my environment, and not scare you with my big, mean, evil looking firearms.
It wouldn't necessarily bother me if I learned a friend carries a firearm if I lived in a place where it was common. San Jose and the bay area are not such places.
That may be true as of this moment, but you can expect that to change if Peruta is upheld, and there is no reason to expect it not to be.
It's not that people aren't interested in exercising their 2nd Amendment rights to carry a firearm in those areas, it's that they're being denied the ability to legally do so, and that is why it isn't common. After the Peruta decision came down from the 9th Circuit and Orange County rightfully decided to abide by it, the Orange County Sherriff was flooded with applications for concealed carry permits. The amount of applications coming in in just a few months time were ten fold what they were for the entire year before. They've had to hire more people to process the apps just to keep up with demand, and the back log is so great, wait times exceed a year and a half processing time.. If there's that much demand in just one county, imagine the demand for the entire state.....
In case you're unfamiliar, you can learn more about the Peruta case here:
No. Everyone should take reasonable precautions. I do. Forgive me, but I don't happen to think that carrying weapons everywhere is a reasonable precaution. What, going out in public for any length of time is now a life or death endeavor? The possibility of becoming a victim of a violent crime looms over us wherever we go?
As another poster said (I think it was neutrino), if one lives in Somalia or somewhere similar, then I could certainly understand wanting to carry a weapon everywhere. But in the US? Do you HONESTLY feel that the US is THAT dangerous of a place? Because if it is, I want to take my kids and get the hell out ASAP (which I could do very easily as a dual citizen). If the US is really that horrible, then I don't want my kids growing up here any longer. Why on earth would I?
But I DON'T think the US is that dangerous. Not even close.
Incidentally, I come from a country with FAR lower rates of violent crime than the US. And yet it seems that I have a more positive opinion of my adopted country than you do you of your native country. That's very unfortunate.
Basically your whole argument boils down to your opinion that the risk of being victimized by crime is so low that it doesn't justify carrying a firearm for protection. Emphasis on "your opinion"..... It's your decision, but you don't have the right to make that decision for everyone else.
To put it another way, I could have a heart attack. BUT, I'm a young guy, and I don't think the risk of me having one is great enough to justify taking an aspirin everyday, so I don't do it.....
If you don't feel the risk is great enough for you to carry a firearm, then don't carry one. However, don't pretend that crime doesn't exist in this country in order to apply your decision on to everyone else. As long as crime occurs, and there is some modicum of risk, then carrying a firearm is a perfectly reasonable and justifiable decision to make...... or not. The decision is yours.
Even if you don't believe carrying one is a reasonable precaution, why would you want to stop anyone from doing so? Statistics show that concealed carriers are 7x less likely to be involved in criminal activity than the average citizen, and only a small fraction of permit holders ever commit a crime with their firearm. So, the cost/benefit analysis shows that there is very little COST to give citizens a legal avenue to carry a firearm, even if there is no benefit ( which is debatable ) so what's your objection?
Basically your whole argument boils down to your opinion that the risk of being victimized by crime is so low that it doesn't justify carrying a firearm for protection. Emphasis on "your opinion"..... It's your decision, but you don't have the right to make that decision for everyone else.
To put it another way, I could have a heart attack. BUT, I'm a young guy, and I don't think the risk of me having one is great enough to justify taking an aspirin everyday, so I don't do it.....
If you don't feel the risk is great enough for you to carry a firearm, then don't carry one. However, don't pretend that crime doesn't exist in this country in order to apply your decision on to everyone else. As long as crime occurs, and there is some modicum of risk, then carrying a firearm is a perfectly reasonable and justifiable decision to make...... or not. The decision is yours.
Even if you don't believe carrying one is a reasonable precaution, why would you want to stop anyone from doing so? Statistics show that concealed carriers are 7x less likely to be involved in criminal activity than the average citizen, and only a small fraction of permit holders ever commit a crime with their firearm. So, the cost/benefit analysis shows that there is very little COST to give citizens a legal avenue to carry a firearm, even if there is no benefit ( which is debatable ) so what's your objection?
Did I say that I want to stop anyone from carrying? I want to you to highlight in any of my posts where I mentioned anything about doing so. Will you jump to conclusions this quickly with a gun in your hand?
I could go into well-documented statistics that show the US to have the highest violent crime rate by FAR than any other WESTERN country (some pro-gun people often like to cite stats showing war-torn, poor, corrupt countries having higher violent crime. Well, yeah, that's no great surprise). But I'm sure you and others in your camp have seen those stats umpteen times, and you prefer to look at stats favoring carrying weapons everywhere.
So, yes, I am simply expressing my opinion. Nothing more.
The issue comes down to a chicken-and-egg conundrum, which neither camp can agree on. What came first, crime or guns? I happen to think it's more the latter. ONE of the main reasons the US has such high rates of violent crime is BECAUSE of easy access to firearms of all kinds. Your camp believes the opposite: crime exists independently of wide gun ownership, and only more guns will mitigate crime rates.
Just another example of the Great American Standoff. The fun never ends.
Last edited by newdixiegirl; 10-29-2014 at 04:29 AM..
Did I say that I want to stop anyone from carrying? I want to you to highlight in any of my posts where I mentioned anything about doing so. Will you jump to conclusions this quickly in an unexpected situation with a gun in your hand?
Again, CD is a forum for discussion, and the OP began this thread to exchange different opinions on this topic. I am simply expressing my opinion. Nothing more.
Okay... You don't want to stop anyone from legally carrying a firearm. Now can you now address WhipperSnapper's other points that were made in his post. Can you also name these safe havens that are 100% crime free? I can post several recent youtube videos where conceal carry holders stopped an attack in grocery stores, while at work, at a hospital, while standing in line in at a store, and even at church. I can post even more proof and example of people being raped, assaulted, and killed while minding there own business going on with there daily routine. SO again, please tell me where is this Utopia you speak where crime CAN not and WILL not EVER happen, so I can move there.
The issue comes down to a chicken-and-egg conundrum, which neither camp can agree on. What came first, crime or guns? I happen to think it's more the latter. ONE of the main reasons the US has such high rates of violent crime is BECAUSE of easy access to firearms of all kinds. Your camp believes the opposite: crime exists independently of wide gun ownership, and only more guns will mitigate crime rates.
Just another example of the Great American Standoff. The fun never ends.
what a joke that is. crime has been around since man has been, and criminal always have weapons even when governments make laws against the law abiding to have weapons. if you want to live in your utopia of where nobody has firearms but cops, government and criminals, then fine by me, but do not force me to live in that police state.
Well, again, that's in the wilderness where there are wild animals that might threaten you, that's not in an urban or suburban area. So that's a different subject. Nobody really cares if you have a hunting rifle with you while hunting, as long as you're not deliberately targeting endangered species or anything else weird like that.
what a joke that is. crime has been around since man has been, and criminal always have weapons even when governments make laws against the law abiding to have weapons. if you want to live in your utopia of where nobody has firearms but cops, government and criminals, then fine by me, but do not force me to live in that police state.
*sigh*
Did I say that crime didn't exist before guns? Do you really think that I think that? I'm quite aware that crime has existed since mankind has existed. I said that, in the case of the US, there is a strong correlation between high violent crime rates and the easy access to firearms. In other words, imo, more guns lead to more crime.
If that's not the case, then why don't other modern, industrialized western countries have similar violent crime rates?
And don't say that it's because they're not as diverse, because that's bunk. I come from one of the most ethnically and racially diverse cities/countries in the world that has a tiny fraction of the crime rate of a comparable US city.
Don't say it's because of the breakdown of the family, or because kids watch too much violent TV or play too many video games. Don't say it's because religion has become less significant in the lives of the average American, or that it's because of the economy. Every single one of these factors exist in other western countries. There's a lot of divorce in other countries. Kids are addicted to screens elsewhere just as the are in the US. Other countries are significantly MORE secular than the US.
Don't say that Americans are intrinsically more violent, either, because I don't believe that. There are just as many domestic disputes, bar brawls, etc, in other countries as there are here. .
So, with all other things being equal, what variable is it in the US mix that doesn't exist in that of other western countries? What could it possibly be? Well, if guns became as easily accessible in other countries as they are here, you'd see their violent crime rates increase. Dramatically
And I've NEVER said there is a utopia out there. I have consistently said the exact opposite on this thread. There is crime everywhere, but it's best to keep things in perspective. Although crime rates in the US are higher than in other western countries, the potential to be a victim of random crime is not nearly as imminent as what your camp seems to believe.
Now, having said all of that, do I think there are circumstances that might warrant carrying a gun or in which I would feel safer with access to a gun? Yes, but they are rare.
Last edited by newdixiegirl; 10-29-2014 at 08:13 AM..
If you ask me... All women should be armed with a firearm.
The ultimate equalizer, would keep the strong overpowering male, at bay
It takes a good guy with a gun, to stop a bad guy with a gun.
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