Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
i don't think obama divided the country, i think harry reid and nancy p, did with their straight party votes and giving obama what ever they wanted. I would have no problem if some of the congress men voted across asle but now, you get elected democratic, your vote will be whatever nancy says it will. and basically same with republican, its like they are all puppets on a string
Except our founding fathers didn't fuel hatred on both sides with a 24 hour media cycle. They wrote beautifully written articles debating alternative views called the Federalist and Anti-Federalist papers. There was reasoned argument. If our founding fathers watched the run up to our elections today, they would be completely horrified. And I doubt - no I'm certain - the Constitution could not be written today. It absolutely could not.
With each election, the country divides more and the anger is more heated. The reality is, the two halves of the country disagree right to their core. There is no middle ground, it's my team against your team. in 2012, Democrats were thrilled and quite vocal about it. In 2014, Republicans are thrilled and quite vocal about it. In 2016, the Democrats are likely to be happy once again. But with that, there's a losing side and the anger gets worse. Do you see this getting any better? I don't.
Yes, the Constitution and Communism do not get along.
I agree with you in that, I have picked a side and I absolutely do not agree with the other side. A person posts that he wishes the president dead because of health care? But that's my point. I don't see the two sides ever coming together.
The two sides will never come together as long as enough people on each side find their own intransigence to be excusable.
None of us are impartial, about the best we can manage is to understand that we, ourselves, lack impartiality even in our most cherished viewpoints. You wouldn't know it from some of my posts here () but I'll be the first to tell you that I'm not impartial either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seacove
Except our founding fathers didn't fuel hatred on both sides with a 24 hour media cycle. They wrote beautifully written articles debating alternative views called the Federalist and Anti-Federalist papers. There was reasoned argument. If our founding fathers watched the run up to our elections today, they would be completely horrified. And I doubt - no I'm certain - the Constitution could not be written today. It absolutely could not.
Here at least I can agree with you
One side effect of the partisan polarization of the press is that when people get their news from only one side, their intransigent attitudes are automatically reinforced and justified. The really funny part is that viewers one either side appear to have no idea that they are doing it!
Fueling partisan hatred is an old game though, older than you may think. If I remember correctly, it got pretty heated in the run up to the War of 1812 - but it was a bit harder to do as effectively with newspapers compared to the shouting heads of today, on 24 hours a day.
i don't think obama divided the country, i think harry reid and nancy p, did with their straight party votes and giving obama what ever they wanted. I would have no problem if some of the congress men voted across asle but now, you get elected democratic, your vote will be whatever nancy says it will. and basically same with republican, its like they are all puppets on a string
You're right that its a two way street - other side of the double yellow there is Grover Norquist among others
With each election, the country divides more and the anger is more heated. The reality is, the two halves of the country disagree right to their core. There is no middle ground, it's my team against your team. in 2012, Democrats were thrilled and quite vocal about it. In 2014, Republicans are thrilled and quite vocal about it. In 2016, the Democrats are likely to be happy once again. But with that, there's a losing side and the anger gets worse. Do you see this getting any better? I don't.
Got Constitution?
The reason it will not get better, is due to the fact that people like you are the problem.
There's a reason why the US was organized under the federal system and not the unitary system.
"B-b-b-b-b-b-but Sweden..."
But what?
But the Kingdom of Sweden and the Kingdom of Norway and Kingdom of Denmark, Kingdom of Belgium, Grand Duchy of Luxembourg, Kingdom of the Netherlands, French Republic, Kingdom of Portugal et al use the unitary system?
Which part of "nation-State" do you not understand?
The Constitution is a brilliant document without equal. The men who wrote it were extraordinarily insightful, especially with respect to the Human Psyche.
They understood all too well something that you'll probably never understand, and that is the US is tremendously diverse. That diversity is not just in terms of population, religion, language and cultural, but also in terms of geology, geography, topography, hydrology, agriculture, climate, weather and more.
In a nation-State, you can have a unitary system of government, since the population is homogenous, thus it's nearly impossible to disenfranchise the people.
A State that has a heterogeneous population is a country; not a nation. In a unitary state with a heterogeneous population, the people are easily disenfranchised and filled with anger, distrust, angst, frustration, despair, and a number of other negative attributes.
Historically, the end result is civil war.
To prevent what Liberals and the Left-Wing are dying to have, the Framers of the Constitution created a power-sharing arrangement between the People, the States and the federal government. And while it might appear to be equal, the powers of the federal government are limited, whereas the power of the People and the States are not as limited.
While the bastard Lincoln did a lot of damage to the Constitution, the damage done since Woodrow Wilson has been far worse.
So, if you don't want to keep the US divided, and end up in a devastating civil war, I suggest you stop pushing for highly centralized unitary-style government.
Liberal definition of Diversity: Total uniformity imposed by terroristic authoritarian centralized rule. Constitutionally...
As someone who clearly is or leans Democrat, I'll take your word that those issues before and in addition to the Iraq war caused the rancor on your side.
As someone who leans Republican and would smile if I read in the morning paper that Obama had caught a bullet, respect for the Presidency be ****ed, let me tell you this: the rage against him, his presidency, and the party that supports him was not there the day he was sworn in. It started building with the stimulus, but almost all of it was triggered by the ACA -- by its contents yes, but also to a large extent by how it was passed and all the lies that were told to help pass it and about what it's effects would be. Joe Wilson spoke for all of us. When you talk about the amount of anger on the right in this country, while there's always some on each side the sheer magnitude is a modern phenomenon, and it traces back to 2010.
This is totally untrue. The people who hate Obama are the same people who impeached Clinton, and shut down the government TWICE. The degree of hate has been building for decades. Obama is just the latest recipient from right wing lunacy and hypocrisy.
Last edited by Fiddlehead; 11-09-2014 at 06:06 PM..
"While the bastard Lincoln did a lot of damage to the Constitution..."
Mircea
Lincoln? Really?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddlehead
This is totally untrue. The people who hate Obama are the same people who impeached Clinton, and shut down the government TWICE. They degree of hate has been building for decades. Obama is just the latest recipient from right wing lunacy and hypocrisy.
Thank you. I'm fascinated by those on the right that now speak kindly of Bill Clinton. At the time, the rhetoric was insane.
I agree with you in that, I have picked a side and I absolutely do not agree with the other side. A person posts that he wishes the president dead because of health care? But that's my point. I don't see the two sides ever coming together.
That poster does not represent a side. No mentally balanced poster makes such a statement. Each side has a duty to avoid fueling the wing nuts, who think hate is patriotic. But to return to your OP, I don't think most Dems. or Repubs. are like that. Most are decent, fair-minded people. It is just the active cultivation of hate that sells ammo and tabloids, and is poisoning the well. Those of us in the middle need to speak up and seize power from the extremes.
The irony of all this is that Obama's dropping approval numbers are because he has been moderate. The far right loathe him on principle (they are partisan lapdogs) no matter what he does, the far left think he has compromised too much. But he has tried to lead as a center left president, which was just what we needed after the excesses of Bush. Despite all the drama, the ACA, invented by the GOP, is not a socialist take over. It is a big step forward for our citizens that was sorely needed for decades. We need to keep working on it, but is a huge step in the right direction.
And I will say, had we had Romney, the world would not have come to an end either, he was center right, and a decent, intelligent man, but ran a dumb campaign.
Thank you. I'm fascinated by those on the right that now speak kindly of Bill Clinton. At the time, the rhetoric was insane.
It is amazing isn't it ?
It took Obama to make Clinton, Carter and Nixon look like a great Presidents.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
) but I'll be the first to tell you that I'm not impartial either.
