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Old 11-28-2014, 06:22 PM
 
41,109 posts, read 25,818,821 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banjomike View Post
That was then, and that was you. Circumstances differ from generation to generation, family to family, and region to region. Nothing is ever static and everything always changes.

The only thing that keeps the American Dream going is regulation. Regulation ended serfdom in Europe, and lack of regulation has allowed serfdom to fester here. if you were 20 right now, your story would probably be much different.
The only people who stay static are those who wait for government.
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Old 11-28-2014, 06:26 PM
 
9,470 posts, read 6,988,528 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banjomike View Post
That was then, and that was you. Circumstances differ from generation to generation, family to family, and region to region. Nothing is ever static and everything always changes.

The only thing that keeps the American Dream going is regulation. Regulation ended serfdom in Europe, and lack of regulation has allowed serfdom to fester here. if you were 20 right now, your story would probably be much different.
That qualifies as one of the top ten most wrong statements of the millenium.
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Old 11-28-2014, 06:32 PM
 
47,042 posts, read 26,150,471 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banjomike View Post
if you were 20 right now, your story would probably be much different.
Heh - just ran into a very SoCal story on that.

I was with a friend on his (effin' marvellous) 40-foot sailboat from a very high-quality builder that I shan't mention. Sadly, said builder has stopped making sailboats and is now making motor yachts exclusively. Why? Because the average age of people who can put down money for a boat keeps rising and rising, and the clientele is now at an age where they just can't handle the physical efforts of sailing any more.
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Old 11-28-2014, 07:36 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles (Native)
25,303 posts, read 21,544,619 times
Reputation: 12319
If America isn't the best country for social mobility then which country is?

I often hear people say things are better in X country, but then continue to live in the United States. There are all these people "worried about the future of America" yet they continue to make the United States their home.

Many people are born poor and continue to stay poor...but you have a better chance of changing your lot in life in America than most other countries.

I think mindset holds a lot of people back and even though they aren't necessarily locked into a caste system like they might be in other countries , they place themselves in this 'caste system' .

A lot of this is because of negative views of money .

Thankfully we can educate ourselves with books and other information.

Books like this
http://www.amazon.com/Rich-Dad-Poor-...le+class+money

The Millionaire Next Door: The Surprising Secrets of America's Wealthy: Thomas J. Stanley, William D. Danko: 9781589795471: Amazon.com: Books

http://www.amazon.com/Distinctions-B...h+middle+class

Can help one open up to a different mindset. Sure it's not a guaranteed path to wealth and one still needs to take action, but there is no doubt that minset, knowledge and education all help in terms of social mobility or gaining wealth.

If you feel like there is no way to win, you will never win .

If you study the wealthy you will see that they didn't wait around for someone to help them or save them. They found opportunities and pursued them. Found creative ways to fund themselves ,etc.
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Old 11-28-2014, 08:10 PM
 
47,042 posts, read 26,150,471 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jm1982 View Post
If America isn't the best country for social mobility then which country is?
According to the OECD? Denmark, Austria, Norway, Finland, Denmark, Sweden, Germany, Spain and France all offer a higher probability to break out of one's parents' socio-economic strata.

http://www.oecd.org/tax/public-finan...gfg%202010.pdf

Sorry, this is based on statistics, not personal success stories - so not as engaging.

Last edited by Dane_in_LA; 11-28-2014 at 08:33 PM..
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Old 11-29-2014, 12:43 AM
 
Location: Long Island
32,832 posts, read 19,555,055 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
Ahh yes social mobility. The guys correct. the 1970's was the last time kids were almost guaranteed to be doing better then their parents. The times have changed.

median incomes have flatlined for the most part since mid 1970s.
really???

median annual household income 1970 ..... $7600
median annual household income 2013.....$51,000

big jump and progress since 1970

doesn't look 'flatlined' to me
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Old 11-29-2014, 12:46 AM
 
Location: Long Island
32,832 posts, read 19,555,055 times
Reputation: 9633
Quote:
Originally Posted by banjomike View Post
That was then, and that was you. Circumstances differ from generation to generation, family to family, and region to region. Nothing is ever static and everything always changes.

The only thing that keeps the American Dream going is regulation. Regulation ended serfdom in Europe, and lack of regulation has allowed serfdom to fester here. if you were 20 right now, your story would probably be much different.
actually is was over regulation and over-taxation (ie the fundamental part of fascism) that causes the serfdom
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Old 11-29-2014, 06:09 AM
 
9,470 posts, read 6,988,528 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
According to the OECD? Denmark, Austria, Norway, Finland, Denmark, Sweden, Germany, Spain and France all offer a higher probability to break out of one's parents' socio-economic strata.

http://www.oecd.org/tax/public-finan...gfg%202010.pdf

Sorry, this is based on statistics, not personal success stories - so not as engaging.
In most of these countries "social mobility" is defined as becoming employed, rather than a life-long welfare case.
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Old 11-29-2014, 06:39 AM
 
9,470 posts, read 6,988,528 times
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Some people don't 'get' how stifling certain places are... let's look at France...

Young, French and desperate | Reuters

Life in France? Now is our winter of discontent - Telegraph

French Malaise, From Louis XVI to Hollande - WSJ

Not exactly a picture of paradise and joy, is it?

What's worse, is that this economic and individual stagnation is an entrenched cultural facet of French society. There is as much chance of changing it as there is of the volcanoes ending in Hawaii...

By comparison, I'd MUCH rather live here.

Neither my parents, nor my wifes parents had any degree of any kind. My father had just 5 years of grade school, and he started it not knowing a word of English. Nor any of the previous generations of our families. We grew up dirt poor and stayed that way.

Of my family, only my oldest brother has a degree. Of my wife's family, only she has a degree - four to be precise. We made a decision a long time ago together that her interests were more financially viable and I worked a full time job and odd jobs to help pay for her first degree.

Now she has an AS, BS, and two MS degrees, soon to get her PhD.

2 or 3 of our 5 kids will get degrees of some kind. Maybe 4.

My father logged or did manual labor. My wife's parents were medically incapable of working much of her life, they were in dire poverty almost all the time.

Does "anecdote" make "data"? Only in that it proves that generalizations of there being no "mobility" economically are absolutely false.

The "there is no mobility" argument cannot be proved by how many don't achieve mobility. It (the argument) is a statement of a lack of opportunity - and those who do prove the "lack of opportunity" doesn't exist. It isn't as good as it was when I was young, but it does still exist. The existence of the ability to move from one economic condition to another cannot be defined by the lack of doing so by many - one would be far better served to figure out why they choose not to, than to compile their numbers and claim it's proof you cannot.
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Old 11-29-2014, 06:49 AM
 
26,654 posts, read 15,208,353 times
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That professor is straight up an idiot if he thinks there is a real comparison.

In the middle ages 97% of all people were serfs - darn near slaves who didn't own land and were bound to nobility.
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