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So help me out, I'm an Irish Catholic. We had our language stolen from us, our religion was banned, we weren't allowed to own land, weren't allowed to own livestock, to be literate & we had the Government starve over a million of us to death in a blatant attempt at genocide. That went on for 700 years. If modern Blacks still suffer from the residual effects of hundreds of years of slavery, logically us Irish Catholics do as well right? Then when we came to the US, often as slaves or indentured servants, many of us were forced straight onto the front lines to fight for the freedom of Blacks in the Civil War. When we returned to NYC and Boston, Southern Blacks came North to compete with us for the only jobs we could get. We were considered a separate race from other Whites, portrayed in the newspapers as apes and monkeys and commonly were referred to as sub-humans. As you probably know, the Klan was often more focused on Catholics than Blacks during the hey day of the Klan in the 1920's-1930's. We had the Government actively working against us as recently as the FDR admin, with Eleanor Roosevelt taking a special interest in handicapping us Catholics. We had our Obama moment with Kennedy, who promptly passed through many of the Civil Rights laws, but it wasn't until the 1980's that we were included in the GOP on any real level. So, are we part of the big White privilege/racist/Klan conspiracy or are we in the victim boat with Blacks?
So help me out, I'm an Irish Catholic. We had our language stolen from us, our religion was banned, we weren't allowed to own land, weren't allowed to own livestock, to be literate & we had the Government starve over a million of us to death in a blatant attempt at genocide. That went on for 700 years.
I suggest you take that up with the British. You guys seem to have had plenty of opportunities to fight them in Ulster.
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modern Blacks still suffer from the residual effects of hundreds of years of slavery, logically us Irish Catholics do as well right? Then when we came to the US, often as slaves or indentured servants, many of us were forced straight onto the front lines to fight for the freedom of Blacks in the Civil War. When we returned to NYC and Boston, Southern Blacks came North to compete with us for the only jobs we could get. We were considered a separate race from other Whites, portrayed in the newspapers as apes and monkeys and commonly were referred to as sub-humans. As you probably know, the Klan was often more focused on Catholics than Blacks during the hey day of the Klan in the 1920's-1930's. We had the Government actively working against us as recently as the FDR admin, with Eleanor Roosevelt taking a special interest in handicapping us Catholics. We had our Obama moment with Kennedy, who promptly passed through many of the Civil Rights laws, but it wasn't until the 1980's that we were included in the GOP on any real level. So, are we part of the big White privilege/racist/Klan conspiracy or are we in the victim boat with Blacks?
We both know that when Irish came here they were immediately afforded rights and human status blacks were not and are not allowed to enjoy. To compare the history of any white-skinned Irish immigrants to that of Africans brought here involuntarily is insane.
My wife is Black and from the Caribbean, she is horrified by the low self esteem & victim mentality of US Blacks. It's a pretty common theme among non US Blacks. They move here, see how easy US Blacks have it, see how little they do with their privilege, how much finger pointing they do prefer to do and distance themselves from US Blacks in any way possible. I know, I know, only Blacks in the US faced slavery and discrimination. None of that happened in the rest of the Americas .
At the risk of sounding insensitive, I have to point this out. There is a big difference between being an immigrant to the USA, and being Black American. I would say Black immigrants to this nation CHOOSE to be here, therefore, have a more optimistic view of the USA. I would say with Black Americans, it is different. While Afro-Caribbeans and Black Americans both are in North America because of slavery, the narratives between the two are different.
I had a conversation with a Haitian friend of mine. We both talked about Haitian culture and Black American culture, and one thing we did agree on was this. Different narratives. Haiti became independent through a slave rebellion. Black Americans,well, the opposite narrative. I noticed that he had a certain genuine pride of being Haitian. There wasn't this militancy about him. It was "I'm enough. I don't measure myself against anyone else, I am who I am". I feel that with being Black in America, the low self esteem among many Blacks come from measuring one's self against what everyone else in America. You might want to consider what that does to a person's self esteem. Maybe that is another major difference between Black Americans, and Blacks from Haiti, Jamaica, Dominica, Barbados,etc.
I suggest you take that up with the British. You guys seem to have had plenty of opportunities to fight them in Ulster.
And furthermore, at least the Irish can learn Gaelic again. In fact, the Irish have their own country. Most Blacks don't even know what tribe in Africa they came from.
We both know that when Irish came here they were immediately afforded rights and human status blacks were not and are not allowed to enjoy. To compare the history of any white-skinned Irish immigrants to that of Africans brought here involuntarily is insane.
Well, not immediately. There was alot of anti-Irish sentiment at one point. There was alot of "No Irish Need Apply" in some places. On the other hand, I do agree that the Irish had the advantage of becoming counted as "White".
So help me out, I'm an Irish Catholic. We had our language stolen from us, our religion was banned, we weren't allowed to own land, weren't allowed to own livestock, to be literate & we had the Government starve over a million of us to death in a blatant attempt at genocide. That went on for 700 years. If modern Blacks still suffer from the residual effects of hundreds of years of slavery, logically us Irish Catholics do as well right? Then when we came to the US, often as slaves or indentured servants, many of us were forced straight onto the front lines to fight for the freedom of Blacks in the Civil War. When we returned to NYC and Boston, Southern Blacks came North to compete with us for the only jobs we could get. We were considered a separate race from other Whites, portrayed in the newspapers as apes and monkeys and commonly were referred to as sub-humans. As you probably know, the Klan was often more focused on Catholics than Blacks during the hey day of the Klan in the 1920's-1930's. We had the Government actively working against us as recently as the FDR admin, with Eleanor Roosevelt taking a special interest in handicapping us Catholics. We had our Obama moment with Kennedy, who promptly passed through many of the Civil Rights laws, but it wasn't until the 1980's that we were included in the GOP on any real level. So, are we part of the big White privilege/racist/Klan conspiracy or are we in the victim boat with Blacks?
This is were ignoring some folk is best as this thread brought out the rabid white haters.
And furthermore, at least the Irish can learn Gaelic again. In fact, the Irish have their own country. Most Blacks don't even know what tribe in Africa they came from.
Well, not immediately. There was alot of anti-Irish sentiment at one point. There was alot of "No Irish Need Apply" in some places. On the other hand, I do agree that the Irish had the advantage of becoming counted as "White".
Irish still had a status in this country far above that of African Americans - in every instance.
But then the Ops original premise is that blacks having choice and black business having to compete was bad. Some may see that has racism same as not being allowed to choice other than same race. Kind of arguing no blacks allowed was good for blacks some how. Cultural conflicts are common; some adapt and other don't in any race to getting along without conflict because of having more common interest.
Irish still had a status in this country far above that of African Americans - in every instance.
And I find something else very ironic.
Immigrants were coming here. And while they might have had a status better than Blacks, they were still starting at a relatively low position, in comparison to Americans. Blacks were either enslaved or mainly poor. Many immigrants came very poor and working in lowly jobs. One would think that the Blacks and immigrants might want to ban together and get a better deal for themselves. When you have large amounts of impoverished and enslaved people standing united, it scares elite types, the wealthy, and those who are in charge. And in some cases, this happened. However, you had those who didn't want this to happen. For this reason, there were those who sought to turn immigrants against the Black population. I would argue racial tensions between the Blacks and Irish in Boston go back to that. In order to rise, one has to beat on the person in a lower position. In fact, tensions between the Irish and Blacks aren't limited to Boston.
This is were ignoring some folk is best as this thread brought out the rabid white haters.
And it hasn't brought out those who hate Blacks?
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