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It's not my fault you painted yourself into that corner.
Should we have a federal agency that deals with beef and another that deals with chicken, or do you believe chickens and cows are the same thing?
How much deeper will you dig the hole?
Seeing you are deciding to resort to strawman arguments, it is clear to me that you have no interest in understanding the difference. So this conversation is over because I have no interest in arguing with someone over their strawman stance.
I don't know if I'd say I'm a fan of it...to me it's just saying "you have the right to choose a new master", which is better than no choice, but still not a satisfactory option to me. As I've heard said before, "Ron Paul would probably be a very nice master, but I prefer none."
I think human nature is like water and you adapt to your environment, so I'm always a little cautious when talking about human nature. I will say that everyone has their own ideas of how things should be done, and I think it's fine to argue your case, use reason and logic, persuade, etc. to get others to accept your ideas. Where I draw the line is when it is FORCED on others. Almost nobody uses aggression or force in their daily interactions, but if you use the government to do it then it's completely fine. When somebody advocates some kind of government solution, I always think "I bet if they personally had to extort that money from others or punish them for disobeying, they would be pretty apprehensive." It doesn't feel so evil when you vote for someone else to do it.
I agree that some forms of government are less oppressive than others. I'd prefer what we have now to ancient Egypt, and I'd prefer our government 200 years ago over what we have now...but that leads to my next point...
Because I don't believe that government is an acceptable option at all, I see voting as a validation of the system. It's like living on a plantation as a slave and asking your master to let you be free. You should rightfully be free in the first place, so why beg them to "allow" it? You just get the other slaves to want their freedom as well. You outnumber your owners easily. (Not a perfect analogy, as government was enforcing the return of escaped slaves, but outside of that... )
Not sure you'll agree with everything, but hopefully you'll see where I'm coming from.
Also, read: Plato's Cave
"The free man left the prisoners in the cave and walked back out into his freedom."
Every society since the first tribal settlement has had a form of government and a master. (you mentioned slaves, so I am going with what I know)
The Bible is 3000+ years old and tells us of the days in which they lived and yes, had slaves. It was man's law that every home must own a slave. To not do so there was a punishment. Much like today in that, it is man's law that every one must carry health insurance.
The free will of man, man's conscience, beyond that of man's law, began an understanding that owning another human being, is wrong, but its the law. Yet in the law, no where does it stipulate how it is one must treat the slave, so they brought home their person or persons and as family members have chores to do, they made them family members and gave them chores. Yet, not every one has the same conscience so not every slave got to become a family member and treated as such.
We have what we have today as a society, in the form of government we have chosen for ourselves because people evolved our laws did so, as well. The laws from the government that was formed 200 years ago, believe it or not they continue to exist today and are legal to use.
We've always been free, to follow our conscience, yet not every one has the same conscience.
It is man's law that every property owner pay taxes. Those that do not wish to participate, they can rent. That is the closest to freedom of choice as it is ever gonna get, because there will always be as it was in the social tribal settlements of past civilizations...some form of government with a master, enacted by the people that live on the land.
Like my dear friend use to ask when I expressed issues related to government or to that which lived within surrounding areas of my home, "where are you going to go"?
Here: "The free man left the prisoners in the cave and walked back out into his freedom."
Because requiring everyone to have healthcare insurance is somehow the same as the government trying to tell women they can't have an abortion? Last time I checked, we will all need healthcare at one point or another in our lives.
It's the government telling you how to run your life one way or the other. Neither is any business of the government.
Beyond that, I'm sure you've bought into the system (Big Healthcare) and you feel that the way things are now done is the only option. That's not really the case, and ultimately, the health care slavery law is not primarily about insurance (although, of course it is in there). It's about total domination by the government of 100% of the healthcare industry and your personal healthcare choices. Don't believe it? Well, you tell me why there needs to be over two thousand pages to simply state that everyone must have health insurance.
Your post, of course evaded that issue. So, let me address what you specifically replied with. No, not everyone has needed, needs or will need medical insurance, or any insurance for that matter. I have car insurance because I'm addressing my liability in case i cream someone and it's my fault. But... I've never needed it over the course of my 35 years of driving. Not once. Never filed a claim. I don't even want to know how much money I've flushed down the toilet over the years on car insurance. What I see auto insurance doing is mainly taking responsibility of operating a motor vehicle away from the driver--it gives a green light to drive like a moron because unless you kill yourself at the wheel, you have no personal liability or consequence.
Moving to medical insurance. For me personally, the same story applies: I've never used it once in my life. Zilch. I've simply paid on a dead horse through my employer when I could have used that money for something of use. Total waste. The very few times I've seen a doctor over the past 35 years (I can count them on one hand), I paid out of pocket... at about 10% the rate of what would have been paid through insurance.
There are better schemes for healthcare than insurance. The only reason everyone is stuck on the concept of insurance is because the insurance industry has your ass brainwashed.
It's the government telling you how to run your life one way or the other. Neither is any business of the government.
Beyond that, I'm sure you've bought into the system (Big Healthcare) and you feel that the way things are now done is the only option. That's not really the case, and ultimately, the health care slavery law is not primarily about insurance (although, of course it is in there). It's about total domination by the government of 100% of the healthcare industry and your personal healthcare choices. Don't believe it? Well, you tell me why there needs to be over two thousand pages to simply state that everyone must have health insurance.
Your post, of course evaded that issue. So, let me address what you specifically replied with. No, not everyone has needed, needs or will need medical insurance, or any insurance for that matter. I have car insurance because I'm addressing my liability in case i cream someone and it's my fault. But... I've never needed it over the course of my 35 years of driving. Not once. Never filed a claim. I don't even want to know how much money I've flushed down the toilet over the years on car insurance. What I see auto insurance doing is mainly taking responsibility of operating a motor vehicle away from the driver--it gives a green light to drive like a moron because unless you kill yourself at the wheel, you have no personal liability or consequence.
Moving to medical insurance. For me personally, the same story applies: I've never used it once in my life. Zilch. I've simply paid on a dead horse through my employer when I could have used that money for something of use. Total waste. The very few times I've seen a doctor over the past 35 years (I can count them on one hand), I paid out of pocket... at about 10% the rate of what would have been paid through insurance.
There are better schemes for healthcare than insurance. The only reason everyone is stuck on the concept of insurance is because the insurance industry has your ass brainwashed.
The fact that everyone is going to need healthcare at some point in their life isn't the government telling people how to live, that is just a fact.
In case you didn't know, I am actually against the idea of health insurance being provided by for-profit companies. I think healthcare insurance should be available to everyone through private and public options.
Unless you were a home birth, I am guessing you spent more time needing healthcare than you think you have. Also, just because you don't need healthcare now doesn't mean you won't be needing it as you get older. Preventative healthcare is the key to living longer.
In case you didn't know, I am actually against the idea of health insurance being provided by for-profit companies. I think healthcare insurance should be available to everyone through private and public options.
Well, we agree on the insurance from employers point.
But I go way further. I think insurance should be made illegal and be exposed for the mafia-like scam it is. We need to find a better way to deal with such matters.
Well, we agree on the insurance from employers point.
But I go way further. I think insurance should be made illegal and be exposed for the mafia-like scam it is. We need to find a better way to deal with such matters.
The current form of insurance isn't a good system, we should function more like other countries with how they handle health insurance and healthcare.
Also, read: Plato's Cave
"The free man left the prisoners in the cave and walked back out into his freedom."
Every society since the first tribal settlement has had a form of government and a master. (you mentioned slaves, so I am going with what I know)
The Bible is 3000+ years old and tells us of the days in which they lived and yes, had slaves. It was man's law that every home must own a slave. To not do so there was a punishment. Much like today in that, it is man's law that every one must carry health insurance.
The free will of man, man's conscience, beyond that of man's law, began an understanding that owning another human being, is wrong, but its the law. Yet in the law, no where does it stipulate how it is one must treat the slave, so they brought home their person or persons and as family members have chores to do, they made them family members and gave them chores. Yet, not every one has the same conscience so not every slave got to become a family member and treated as such.
We have what we have today as a society, in the form of government we have chosen for ourselves because people evolved our laws did so, as well. The laws from the government that was formed 200 years ago, believe it or not they continue to exist today and are legal to use.
We've always been free, to follow our conscience, yet not every one has the same conscience.
It is man's law that every property owner pay taxes. Those that do not wish to participate, they can rent. That is the closest to freedom of choice as it is ever gonna get, because there will always be as it was in the social tribal settlements of past civilizations...some form of government with a master, enacted by the people that live on the land.
Like my dear friend use to ask when I expressed issues related to government or to that which lived within surrounding areas of my home, "where are you going to go"?
Here: "The free man left the prisoners in the cave and walked back out into his freedom."
True, there always has been government (outside of a few isolated periods in Ireland and Iceland...if I'm remembering correctly) but I don't think it will always be that way. I think its a moral paradigm that people will eventually move past...the logic and reasoning is consistent, so it just depends on when people decide to be consistent in their own ideas. That may take generations, but I 100% believe it will happen at some point.
Some still believe that more government is great, but many are at least skeptical and see the dangers of giving anyone the right to rule. After pointing out the violence and coercion that government is BASED UPON...without the "right" to initiate violence, it isn't government... people will admit that government is a "necessary" evil, but then they're still advocating evil. So, since I realized I would be advocating things I normally think are completely evil, I said "if there's any other alternative, we can't use the excuse that it's necessary" and I've found guys like Jeffery Tucker, Stefan Molyneux, Larken Rose, and plenty of others who talk about this topic.
When your friend asked "where are you going to go?" the answer obviously is that there is no modern society that is free of rulers, so there is no other option. The only thing you can do is show people the essence of what government is and sort of "lead them to the water"...but it's up to them to drink. I can't and won't force my opinions on anyone, no matter how right I might be.
Sorry if I rambled a bit hopefully I didn't stray too far from your points
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Last time I checked, we will all need healthcare at one point or another in our lives.
