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Old 02-07-2015, 11:30 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,118 posts, read 44,928,596 times
Reputation: 13732

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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Maleman View Post
It's not that your career is wrong. It's the fact that the 900% profit margin could easily be adjusted to 830% and double the wages of the production workers. The owner or stockholders would see a slightly smaller ROI and they are the ones who can afford this without a change in lifestyle.
You're wrong about that. And here's why...

Quote:
"This shift of business ownership from rich people to working people may be the greatest economic transformation since the Industrial Revolution.

...So what does all this mean? Well, for starters, it should lead to an end of complaints about the profits of corporations and allegations about 'greedy corporations.' After all, much of that profit now goes toward the current and future retirement incomes of working people."
Business Ownership & Labor Day

Everyone who contributes to or benefits from an IRA, 401K, pension fund (public employee, union, or private sector), mutual fund, annuity, or whole life insurance policy, etc., DEPENDS on corporate profits. Just so you understand, I'll reiterate... they DEPEND on corporate profits.

How anyone fails to connect the dots on how so very many Americans' retirement plans (pensions, IRAs/401Ks, annuities, etc.) absolutely depend on corporate profits is beyond me. Don't people have critical thinking skills anymore?

 
Old 02-07-2015, 11:35 AM
 
3,792 posts, read 2,390,003 times
Reputation: 768
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Analogy: Why should person A be charged $5 for a gallon of milk, while person B is charged $500 for a gallon of milk?
Flip it around. Why do we on occasion give someone holding a sign by the side of the road a gallon of milk when we have to pay for it?

The "free ride" the top gets from inflation works like this. Ronald Reagan gave the top a tax cut. They borrowed the money to buy the T-bills issued to cover their tax cut. They got their former tax money back with interest. Who paid the interest? Well no one yet the just rolled it over into more debt. Or they borrow money at low rates start something like oil exploration, drilling, expansion on extraction. The big guys got the money first, then the workers. the companies made out big the workers got to work hard and take home a check.
 
Old 02-07-2015, 11:39 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,118 posts, read 44,928,596 times
Reputation: 13732
Quote:
Originally Posted by ContrarianEcon View Post
Flip it around. Why do we on occasion give someone holding a sign by the side of the road a gallon of milk when we have to pay for it?
That's not flipping it around. Flipping it around would be that everyone pays the same price, $5 for a gallon of milk, and those who need a gallon of milk because they can't pay for it themselves gets milk from those who've all paid $5 for it.
 
Old 02-07-2015, 11:41 AM
 
1,442 posts, read 1,343,049 times
Reputation: 1597
Quote:
Originally Posted by ContrarianEcon View Post
Flip it around. Why do we on occasion give someone holding a sign by the side of the road a gallon of milk when we have to pay for it?

The "free ride" the top gets from inflation works like this. Ronald Reagan gave the top a tax cut. They borrowed the money to buy the T-bills issued to cover their tax cut. They got their former tax money back with interest. Who paid the interest? Well no one yet the just rolled it over into more debt. Or they borrow money at low rates start something like oil exploration, drilling, expansion on extraction. The big guys got the money first, then the workers. the companies made out big the workers got to work hard and take home a check.
The difference is, we have a CHOICE in your example instead of being FORCED
 
Old 02-07-2015, 12:11 PM
 
3,792 posts, read 2,390,003 times
Reputation: 768
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
That's not flipping it around. Flipping it around would be that everyone pays the same price, $5 for a gallon of milk, and those who need a gallon of milk because they can't pay for it themselves gets milk from those who've all paid $5 for it.
OK so how do you set it up long term so that everyone get to pay the same amount of the inflation tax?

I can set it up so that the bottom doesn't pay the inflation tax and the top does and that it is hard to game in the tops favor.

I'd be all for everyone paying the same amount of the inflation tax. Hard to do.
 
Old 02-07-2015, 12:13 PM
 
3,792 posts, read 2,390,003 times
Reputation: 768
Quote:
Originally Posted by CRenaud View Post
The difference is, we have a CHOICE in your example instead of being FORCED
OK. The top is getting a free ride from inflation and the bottom is paying the inflation tax. Where is the choice in that one?
 
Old 02-07-2015, 12:13 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,118 posts, read 44,928,596 times
Reputation: 13732
Quote:
Originally Posted by ContrarianEcon View Post
OK so how do you set it up long term so that everyone get to pay the same amount of the inflation tax?
How do they not? You're assuming that only the rich take advantage of inflation to accumulate wealth. We know that's not true based on the fact that 80% of all millionaires earned/accumulated their own wealth. Read The Millionaire Next Door, last updated in 2010.

It's only their own financial ignorance and/or a lack of self-discipline that causes anyone from not doing the exact same thing (excluding the truly incapacitated, of course).
 
Old 02-07-2015, 12:35 PM
 
3,792 posts, read 2,390,003 times
Reputation: 768
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
How do they not? You're assuming that only the rich take advantage of inflation to accumulate wealth. We know that's not true based on the fact that 80% of all millionaires earned/accumulated their own wealth.
I'm not saying they didn't earn their wealth, I'm saying that they have passed the inflation tax off to the bottom. And millionaire Aren't the problem. Billionaires are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Read The Millionaire Next Door, last updated in 2010.

It's only their own financial ignorance and/or a lack of self-discipline that causes anyone from not doing the exact same thing (excluding the truly incapacitated, of course).
Bull fertilizer. You can change your place on the wealth distribution by hard work or stupidity up or down, but you can't change the shape of the distribution. That takes manipulating the tax code and other things like where you target inflation. And who gets their hands on the money first.
 
Old 02-07-2015, 12:39 PM
 
325 posts, read 256,294 times
Reputation: 439
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
You're wrong about that. And here's why...


Business Ownership & Labor Day

Everyone who contributes to or benefits from an IRA, 401K, pension fund (public employee, union, or private sector), mutual fund, annuity, or whole life insurance policy, etc., DEPENDS on corporate profits. Just so you understand, I'll reiterate... they DEPEND on corporate profits.

How anyone fails to connect the dots on how so very many Americans' retirement plans (pensions, IRAs/401Ks, annuities, etc.) absolutely depend on corporate profits is beyond me. Don't people have critical thinking skills anymore?
Your argument is irrelevant to the point I am making. I am not suggesting that there should be no profits, I'm suggesting that the unfair distribution of profit is exacerbating social problems.
Many people don't have 401k or pension plans. The fact is that 8% ROI one year followed by 16% ROI the next followed by a 6% loss the next year averages to 18% over 3 years and is just as well served by stable gains at 6% per year. You are protesting only from the viewpoint of those who earn from interest, without considering the overall impact on the economy. NOBODY WANTS TO TAKE FROM YOU. There just needs to be a different and better system to direct more expendable income into the lower levels of society. A minimum standard of living which is worth having. Doing this creates prosperity for everyone, and although nothing in life is fair, it can to some measure alleviate the suffering of those who are unable to advance their station in life. It can also greatly lessen the burden on the Government which is forced to foot the bill for your "I've got mine, screw the rest of you" attitude.
I say again, maximization is the key to dissolution. We need balance.
 
Old 02-07-2015, 12:49 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,118 posts, read 44,928,596 times
Reputation: 13732
Quote:
Originally Posted by ContrarianEcon View Post
I'm not saying they didn't earn their wealth, I'm saying that they have passed the inflation tax off to the bottom.
No. The bottom has chosen to pay the inflation tax via choosing to remain financially ignorant and/or via a lack of self-discipline that causes anyone from not doing the exact same thing as all those self-made millionaires and billionaires.

Only 15% of the top 1%'s wealth was inherited. The rest, a full 85% of it, was earned/accumulated via wise life and financial decisions.

The Rich - Vast Majority Didn't Inherit Their Wealth

BLS Report cited:
http://www.bls.gov/ore/pdf/ec110030.pdf
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