Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
If you were in a restaurant, and a person was walking around executing people, would you want to be armed? I would.
Honestly I would either be calling 9/11 or running like hell to get the **** out of there. As I said earlier there are x factors such as mechanical failures, freezing, mix aiming, moving targets, etc that even if you have a gun, you aren't out of the woods.
Actually I asked the police. They say it's really good to be able to seize the guns of the low lifes wandering armed around the city. Seems to be working.
So what's that have to do with anything? Police can seize the guns of criminals in areas with permissive concealed carry laws to . The only thing your restrictive laws do is ensure that only the criminals are walking the streets armed.
I can learn to shoot and I have with a rifle, not a
handgun.
Great! Welcome to the shooting sports.... Have fun!
Quote:
However I've never shot a living thing with one. Shooting a living thing whether
it is animal or human is different.
You absolutely right. I've shot living things, and even though I always had a justifiable reason for doing so, it always weighs on my conscious. Taking a life isn't fun.
Quote:
It is mentally draining and stressful to be a good guy with a gun
That's also true. It's a personal decision, one that should not be taken lightly, and is not for every one. A lot of people decide it's not for them.
Quote:
I am for gun safety
You mean you are for gun control, don't try and sugar coat it with this " gun safety" stuff. There are only four rules that legitimately qualify as "gun safety"
All guns should be treated as if they are loaded
Never point the gun at anything you are not willing to destroy.
Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on target (and you have made the decision to shoot).
Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.
I'll let you define what you mean by "gun safety" for yourself though. Perhaps I'm wrong about what you mean.
Quote:
not this hogwash that any good person with a gun can stop a bad guy with a gun,
Whoever said that "any" good person with a gun can stop a bad guy with a gun? No one ever said that "any" person with a gun can stop a threat. Plenty of good people with guns have failed to stop a bad person with a gun, and some have died trying. The fact remains though that a good person with a gun, has the best chance of stopping a bad person with a gun, and you prove that in your own statements. You said you'd call 911 if someone started shooting IE you'd call the police, presumably good guys with guns, and hope they arrived in time to save your bacon.
A bit of a better chance because if the shooter sees me with the gun and I can't
shoot (mechanical or mentally) or shoot but miss, I'm dead.
So because you don't feel confident enough in your own abilities, that means everyone else must be the same as you? Or, are you only making these statements about yourself, and not everyone else in general?
If you don't feel comfortable or confident enough to carry a firearm, that's fine. No one's going to judge you for that. Only you know yourself and what you're capable of. However, don't project your feelings on to everyone else or limit their ability to defend themselves based on your feelings.
Quote:
Honestly I would either be calling 9/11 or running like hell to get the ****
out of there.
I carry a gun daily, and I would do the same exact thing if it were at all possible. I carry a gun to defend myself, and only as a last resort..... NOT to be a hero.
Quote:
As I said earlier there are x factors such as mechanical failures, freezing, mix
aiming, moving targets, etc that even if you have a gun, you aren't
out of the woods.
No one ever claimed you were. A gun is a tool, nothing more. It doesn't make you invincible.
You mean you are for gun control, don't try and sugar coat it with this " gun safety" stuff. There are only four rules that legitimately qualify as "gun safety"
All guns should be treated as if they are loaded
Never point the gun at anything you are not willing to destroy.
Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on target (and you have made the decision to shoot).
Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.
I'll let you define what you mean by "gun safety" for yourself though. Perhaps I'm wrong about what you mean.
Yeah and this is why most times good guys with a gun whether cops or civilians DO NOTHING. Good guys with guns stop shooters about as often as good guys unarmed. WHY, because they don't have a clear shot, fears of hitting a civilian, etc.
I'm for guns, I am not saying to abolish guns like some people do, we just need to be more careful. There's no reason that you need to have a license to drive a car but in states like Arizona, you can carry without documentation. Both are equally dangerous if used under poor judgement or no judgement.
Quote:
Whoever said that "any" good person with a gun can stop a bad guy with a gun? No one ever said that "any" person with a gun can stop a threat. Plenty of good people with guns have failed to stop a bad person with a gun, and some have died trying. The fact remains though that a good person with a gun, has the best chance of stopping a bad person with a gun, and you prove that in your own statements. You said you'd call 911 if someone started shooting IE you'd call the police, presumably good guys with guns, and hope they arrived in time to save your bacon.
Police are TRAINED and CONDITIONED to these situations. Armed security guards, are too TRAINED and CONDITIONED for these situations. A Guardian Angel or an individual vigilante however may not. When you aren't trained, you are more likely to make mistakes and wind up making things worse and possibly getting yourself killed. The reason I call the cops is I don't want untrained vigilantes including myself to cause the situation to get worse by accident or freezing up.
Several were done by police, ex-military and even store owners themselves and several include knives. Not many with good Samaritans who carry.
Quote:
So because you don't feel confident enough in your own abilities, that means everyone else must be the same as you? Or, are you only making these statements about yourself, and not everyone else in general?
Am I the only one who would possibly fear freezing up or having a jam trying to be a hero? If the answer is yes, then you are right. If the answer is no, then you understand. Plus didn't you already say that it isn't it hard to actually shoot a living thing and taking a life is never fun?
Quote:
If you don't feel comfortable or confident enough to carry a firearm, that's fine. No one's going to judge you for that. Only you know yourself and what you're capable of. However, don't project your feelings on to everyone else or limit their ability to defend themselves based on your feelings.
If you think I am the only one that feels that way, you are wrong. Only 30% of homes actually have a gun and only 32% of people self report owning guns. How Many People Own Guns in America? And Is Gun Ownership Actually Declining? | TheBlaze.com Now, let's remember we aren't talking just handguns but also rifles and shotguns which aren't going to be able to be pulled out at a grocery store except from behind the counter.
Quote:
I carry a gun daily, and I would do the same exact thing if it were at all possible. I carry a gun to defend myself, and only as a last resort..... NOT to be a hero.
That's you but like you said to me about my beliefs, that not everyone has the same view. Some don't carry at all. Some carry and will freely use force.
Quote:
No one ever claimed you were. A gun is a tool, nothing more. It doesn't make you invincible.
people who say guns are evil or they don't need one have never used nor know what a gun is. Its like saying I am a man I don't need a hammer. LOL maybe you don't I do. I need a lot of tools and a gun is a tool. I have guns that shoot bullets, some that shoot nails, one that uses 22lr bullet banks to shoot nails into concrete. I have glue guns that shoot hot glue, calk guns that shoot all kinds of things and a paint gun that shoots paint. Depends on what I am shooting. You liberals don't understand tools because you don't work.
Yeah and this is why most times good guys with a gun
whether cops or civilians DO NOTHING. Good guys with guns stop shooters about as
often as good guys unarmed. WHY, because they don't have a clear shot, fears of
hitting a civilian, etc.
That just shows that they're using good judgment, and you've just undermined your own point. If a concealed carrier decides not to take a shot for fear of harming others, it pretty much proves that concealed carriers are not the untrained baffoons that some believe them to be. They don't just get up and start spraying led everywhere at the first sign of trouble. Sadly, can't say the same for some cops..... read on.
Quote:
I'm for guns, I am not saying to abolish guns like some people do, we just need
to be more careful. There's no reason that you need to have a license to drive a
car but in states like Arizona, you can carry without documentation. Both are
equally dangerous if used under poor judgement or no judgement.
Comparing guns to cars is never a good analogy. Guns are a Constitutional Right, unlike the privilege of driving, granted to you by the state. As such, issues involving guns are automatically elevated to a higher level of scrutiny. As for me, I'm not personally opposed to requiring training before being allowed to carry a gun, but that's my personal opinion.
But, for the sake of argument, I'll play along momentarily. Can you cite any tangible evidence of more accidents, more negligence, or more incidents of poor judgment by concealed carriers in states that do not require training and a permit to carry versus states that do require it?
Quote:
Police are TRAINED and CONDITIONED to these situations. Armed security guards,
are too TRAINED and CONDITIONED for these situations.
This illusion of police having so much more training than a civilian is just that, an illusion. I'm friends with quite a few LEO's in my area, and the extent of their training is a once-a-year trip to the range for qualifications. The gun doesn't leave their holster other than that, if they have no interest in firearms as a civilian. Tell me, does these two incidents posted below, give you any confidence in this rigorous, extensive training LEO's supposedly endure?
....and there are many more just like it. Yep, they have so much more training than the weekend warriors who spend hours at the range per month. In fact I get a warm fuzzy feeling just knowing they're out there, "protecting" us.
Quote:
A Guardian Angel or an individual vigilante however may not. When you aren't
trained, you are more likely to make mistakes and wind up making things worse
and possibly getting yourself killed. The reason I call the cops is I don't want
untrained vigilantes including myself to cause the situation to get worse by
accident or freezing up.
The purpose of a CCW permit is NOT to be a "vigilante" or a crime fighter, it is to protect yourself, and thats it. Don't worry MK, if I see you getting mugged in a parking lot somewhere, I'll head the other way.... I have no desire to be your "guardian angel" and put myself in danger.
Quote:
Several were done by police, ex-military and even store owners themselves and
several include knives. Not many with good Samaritans who carry.
Just guessing and making things up because you didn't bother to click the link???
I think you'd better re-read the link I provided for you, as your response seems to indicate that you didn't read it at all. The link I posted is exclusively about civilians and good Samaritans defending themselves or the lives of others with their firearms.
Quote:
Am I the only one who would possibly fear freezing up or having a jam trying
to be a hero? If the answer is yes, then you are right. If the answer is no,
then you understand.
Fair enough. BUT, just so we're clear, your not advocating that "I" not be allowed to carry a firearm just because "you" don't feel you should, are you?
Quote:
Plus didn't you already say that it isn't it hard to actually shoot a
living thing and taking a life is never fun?
Of course. That doesn't mean I wouldn't / couldn't do it if it came down to me vs. them. Gawd forbid I ever am in that situation. If I carry my whole life without ever having to draw my firearm, that will be a success.
Quote:
Some people make you think it would.
No pro-gun, pro-carry person I've ever encountered on here or otherwise has ever given me the impression that they think carrying a gun makes them invincible. People I HAVE heard make those remarks however, are anti-gun people who think that pro-gun people think that way.
When did the SCOTUS rule on this? They have avoided this ruling like the plague.
Meanwhile:
CA2 says that attacks outside the home are imaginary.
CA3 says that the legislature is there to check for unconstitutional laws.
CA4 says they need to wait for SCOTUS.
CA5, CA7, and CA9 (as well as the DC circuit) all ruled that there is a constitutional right outside the home based on actual facts, not judicial supposition.
In Heller the Court left control of guns outside the home within the control of state and local governments. At the appeals level an absolute ban has been ruled too restrictive, but "good cause" has been determined to be a constitutionally valid criteria.
In Heller the Court left control of guns outside the home within the control of state and local governments. At the appeals level an absolute ban has been ruled too restrictive, but "good cause" has been determined to be a constitutionally valid criteria.
The court did not rule specifically on whether or not carry outside the home is protected. That was not what the case was about, and the court made clear that they were not ruling on that issue in Heller. Nothing is stopping them from taking up that issue specifically and ruling that carry outside the home is or is not protected. In fact, some say it's almost a certainty that the issue will be taken up by SCOTUS, now that there's a split in the circuit courts.
Police are TRAINED and CONDITIONED to these situations. Armed security guards, are too TRAINED and CONDITIONED for these situations. A Guardian Angel or an individual vigilante however may not. When you aren't trained, you are more likely to make mistakes and wind up making things worse and possibly getting yourself killed. The reason I call the cops is I don't want untrained vigilantes including myself to cause the situation to get worse by accident or freezing up.
.
Incorrect on so many levels, including the actual real world data.
Police are MINIMALLY TRAINED. Generally speaking most officers that aren't part of the gun community as a whole do a bi-annual re-cert on their firearms course. In fact, people redid the LAPD Police Pistol Qualification Course with INCREASED difficulty and had over a 90% success rate. One person passed the test shooting one handed with a casted left arm.
Further, as stated before (you must have missed it) Texas has kept the best records in the US on DGU's and the outcomes of crime, something the FBI stopped doing in the mid-90's IIRC. They found that non-LEO shootouts had significantly better outcomes then shootouts involving police with better hit ratios (up to 70%!!!!!), better target ID, and lower collateral damage.
Honestly I would either be calling 9/11 or running like hell to get the **** out of there. As I said earlier there are x factors such as mechanical failures, freezing, mix aiming, moving targets, etc that even if you have a gun, you aren't out of the woods.
So, the answer is that you'd rather have a phone than a gun.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Have fun!
