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As a left leaner, If push came to shove, I would be on the side of Israel against any and every other country in the region. For all the reasons you just posted.
But it's obvious to me by now that Israel is the main obstacle to a solution to the Palestinian State and Israeli question.
I've concluded that the reason is because Israel has only one permissible solution. That is total annexation of the West bank and Jerusalem as their capital. They won't ever come out and say that, but that is the elephant in the room or the stench in the elevator, depending on your viewpoint.
That's why I speak out against this fawning over Israel and their dramas.
It's all phony and not one individual in the world would consider the Palestinians a real military threat to Israel's existence.
For me, it's all word salad that comes out of Israeli's mouth and toe tapping around the fact that Complete annexation of the West Bank and Jerusalem as their capital is the only objective of Israel and nothing less will ever do.
I wish at least one Israeli or rabid supporter would be honest and admit it.
If Israel wanted to annex the West Bank, they would of done so 4 decades ago. If Israel wanted to clean slate the Gaza Strip and the West Bank, they would of done so 4 decades ago. During the Labour Party days ( The Israeli left), Annexation was talked about immensely, but the conclusion was that annexing the West Bank would create a higher Moslem : Jewish ratio. And technically, Israel would violate international law if It annexed the West Bank, because It would be violation to UNSC 242.
I sound like a broken record when it comes to Arab responsibility and repercussions of their actions. They could of had a state 6 decades ago, 5 decades ago... They rejected each one and systemically calculated that war was the only option. They lost and now they must suffer the consequences, and these consequences are decisive as an Israeli victory.
UNSC 242 is official Israeli policy and the only diplomatic agreement Israel will make with the Palestinians and its fellow neighbors. Land for peace... Negotiated borders + Peace treaty =
Palestine State. If these two requirements are not met, Palestine will be stateless. This principle was used with Egypt and Jordan, and has been successful today.
The problem at hand has nothing to do with Israel but with the Palestinian leadership. The Palestinians are fragmented, both politically and culturally. The West Bank residents are culturally closer to Jordan as the Gazan's are more influenced with Egyptian culture, due to its occupations under these regimes. Palestinians from both territories do not really understand this nationalistic unification. The concept of the nation state is artificial in nature in the region and a partial reason for the violence in the Arab world.
We must also examine the theological differences between Hamas and the PA. Hamas wants to violently liberate Israel from infidels and establish an Islamic caliphate in 'all of Palestine' via Hamas charter. The PA takes a more political approach, which wants to liberate ' all of Palestine' through political lawfare or what is called the "phased plan". Once the PA establishes the 1967 borders to weaken Israel, it will ask for the 1948 borders, then the 1947 Armistace lines, ect ect. All In while, these two organizations are enemies in nature, and Hamas will not give up its platform or ideological struggle for liberation in the strip because Israel withdrew from some settlements in the Bank. The Palestinian leadership makes billions in free aid from the world off of Palestinian blood. A Palestinian state would loose this aid and would have to be responsible for statecraft... ect
Long story short, apartment buildings in the West Bank have nothing to do with the conflict.
Last edited by BMoreJuice; 01-30-2015 at 12:29 AM..
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,329 posts, read 54,381,135 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wapasha
It is amazing, Israel is the only free democracy in the region, where women are free, and the people are free to worship any religion without fear of retribution from the state. Maybe if Israel behaved like some Muslim countries and murdered gays, and stoned women for being raped, then the left would love Israel.
Which considering the blood and $$$ we spent in Iraq allegedly fighting to bring it democracy only serves to highlight how ineffective our meddling in the region continues to be and why we should let the involved countries either learn to live together or die together without US interference.
Israel's mistake was that it didn't expel the Palestinians after being attacked three times by surrounding Arab nations, followed by decades of terrorist attacks by Hamas, etc.
It's still not too late to carry out that expulsion.
When a country wins a war after being attacked and wins territory as a result, if that country is not Israel, it gets to dictate what goes on in that newly won territory. But for some strange reason, Jews are not allowed to do what everyone else does.
Hmm, I wonder if that has anything to do with anti-semitism...
All you libs who are so worked up about the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza, and about the Israeli settlements...I'd like to know when you're going to pack your bags and move out of this country, which we took from the Native Americans. Or, if you live in the southwest, pack your bags and move out because we took the land from Mexico.
Using that logic we should have built houses in Japan and Germany, Israel seems to be very adept at confiscating property after each conflict.
Just observing that the main reason for 9/11 was our often repeated support for mad dog Israel and their single minded pursuit of dominance over the Middle East. In all the decades of strife there how many Israeli nationals do you imagine have died in terrorist attacks? Hundreds? A thousand? I doubt that. But I do know that on Sept. 11, 2001 at least 3,000 civilians and para-military personnel lost their lives on American soil in large part due to America being seen as the major engine of Israels dominance of the Middle East. America has paid, is paying a heavy price for not holding Israel more accountable!!! Obama is using just the right tone so save the faux outrage.
9/11 was not caused solely by American support for Israel. FYI 2,495 Israelis have been killed in terrorist attacks since the modern state of Israel was established besides the terrorist attacks on Jewish Palestinians in the area prior to 1948. (Also remember that Israel is smaller than New Jersey meaning that percentage of its citizens killed in terrorist attacks is much higher than in the USA.)
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,329 posts, read 54,381,135 times
Reputation: 40736
Quote:
Originally Posted by dechatelet
All you libs who are so worked up about the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza, and about the Israeli settlements...I'd like to know when you're going to pack your bags and move out of this country, which we took from the Native Americans. Or, if you live in the southwest, pack your bags and move out because we took the land from Mexico.
Let Israel do what it wants and bear the responsibilities of its actions. The US should be no more involved there than Israel is with defending Native American rights in the US. Or would that be too unbiased for you?
INHO - We do not have ANY friends in Middle East. We just have a bunch of insecure governments using the US for their own policies and protection. Without our protection Israel goes down in flames and takes the rest of the Middle East with them. Without our protection The Saudi Royal Family would have to outrun their enemies if the wished to survive. The rest would just fight each other to the last heretics.
It is time to let these fools to their own fate and just get out of the place. After all the oil will still be there safely underground.
INHO - We do not have ANY friends in Middle East. We just have a bunch of insecure governments using the US for their own policies and protection. Without our protection Israel goes down in flames and takes the rest of the Middle East with them. Without our protection The Saudi Royal Family would have to outrun their enemies if the wished to survive. The rest would just fight each other to the last heretics.
It is time to let these fools to their own fate and just get out of the place. After all the oil will still be there safely underground.
That's why Israel won two war fronts all by itself against multiple Arab enemies without U.S assistance...
Israel does not need you to determine what to do, who's an enemy or to preach morality from your safe American estate.
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