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She did not discriminate. She followed her lawful right to her religion. We must be inclusive in this country and allow people to have different life styles and values than we do. We cannot force our views or lifestyle on others. It is bigoted to do so. Live and let live. Freedom to all.
I would suggest she post a sign stating she does not want homosexuals business and that should take care of it.
Sorry. Came to the party late But yeah I agree with this post. This is America. We have freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and freedom to date/have sex with whomever we choose. If the couple knew about her religion they should've just went to another florist who'd do it. There's businesses everywhere with rainbow flags in the window. Why try to make an example out of her?
Keep trying to justify your original statement by adding conditions. Doesn't change your initial, unqualified response that gays can be denied service for requesting a rainbow colored, penis shaped wedding cake. End of your statement. PERIOD.
I never changed my position. I was discussing decorations as a reason to refuse cakes with another poster. I clarified that statement when YOU couldn't seem grasp the concept.
I agreed that if the baker did not offer those decorations/designs, then they don't have to sell them to gays or anyone else for that matter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuck's Dad
So, let's say the premise that a bakery is a public accomodation, and can't discriminate, and must make wedding cakes for gays marrying, even if the concept violates the owners deeply held religious veiws (protected under the 1st Ammendment - free exersise of religion), is accepted as settled law (although the Hobby Lobby decision on the ACA applicability to their company probably applies, and indicates a religious exemption does indeed exist), can gay bakers, under the same logic of public accomodation that gay activists are trying to apply against Christian bakers, refuse to make a cake with a message that is against gay marriage (protected again, under the 1st Ammendment - speech)?
Interesting double standard and legal dillema IMO.
EDIT: For the record, I think the guy was trolling for a controversy asking gay bakers to bake a cake with anti gay statements, but then the gay couple also specifically targeted the Christian womans bakery. The link is for reference that the event occured, not as a statement of agreement/disagreement with the article/blog statements.
This probably takes the thread from current events to great debates, although both issues are current events.
There is the post I was responding to, The bolded is what I was referring to about decoration/design.
But keep on beating that horse, I'm not sure it is dead enough.
That has never BEEN my answer. Every citizen right to the free exercise of their religious faith is protected by the 1st Amendment. There are no caveats or conditions in the 1st Amendment with regard to specific religions.
So ANY religious belief is protected from laws that infringe on then?
You may want to think this through.
Remember this post
Quote:
But the 1st Amendment protects every citizen from being forced to follow a specific, government sanctioned religion and protects every citizen's right to freely express their religion by prohibiting laws that infringe upon that religious freedom.
That has never BEEN my answer. Every citizen right to the free exercise of their religious faith is protected by the 1st Amendment. There are no caveats or conditions in the 1st Amendment with regard to specific religions.
The 1st Amendment doesn't say that. It says that congress shall make no law establishing a religion or make no law that would impede the free exercise of religion.
The difference is subtile, but that does not mean that you can do anything you want. The Bible for example, allows gives scripture where owning slaves is perfectly fine. It even says how they must be cared for. Obviously that religious practice was eliminated by law long ago.
Every citizen right to the free exercise of their religious faith is protected by the 1st Amendment. There are no caveats or conditions in the 1st Amendment with regard to specific religions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrose
So ANY religious belief is protected from laws that infringe on then?
Of course. My religious belief is that fathers should have sex with their daughters once a year on their birthday until they reach puberty. Since it's my religious belief, the 1st Amendment protects my right to do so, and sexual assault statutes don't apply to me.
I am not a friend. I live across the state. I have donated to her defense fund. It has nothing to do with the customer's money. It has to do with the underlying event and the fact that her involvement would conflict with her religious beliefs.
Fine, you seem to be missing the point. Don't take his money all those years knowing he is gay than.
A shame you wasted your money on her. Business 101 is keep your personal views to yourself. All she had to say was "sorry I can't accommodate you" if she didn't want to do it. But she couldn't keep her trap shut...oh well.
I know her type, the good ole Southern Christian(Baptist), they're only Christian to people who share their beliefs. Perhaps she should have stayed in the south in a small southern town. Kind of dumb to live in the more liberal PNW and have that attitude, or at least keep it to yourself.
Especially when you run what is really a "non-essential" business in a still shaky economy.
Flowers are nice, but not necessary to purchase.
The "bless your heart" types who have nothing but disdain for those who just aren't like them.
I would even have some respect for her if she didn't take his money for the last 10 years because he was gay, but she gladly took it.
She did not refuse to serve the gay customer and had sold him flowers for nearly a decade. She declined to participate in an event that celebrated homosexuality. THAT participation was in direct conflict with her religious beliefs.
But it is not a "celebration of homosexuality".
A marriage celebrates a commitment of two people to one another and, in the US, provides certain legal rights, such as sharing property and other assets and treatment under the tax code. A wedding really says nothing about sexual practices at all.
Religions are free to decide whether they will perform weddings for LGBT couples. There are no laws that compel them to do so. In the jurisdictions that allow same sex marriage, the ceremony may be civil or religious. Same sex couples are just looking for the same benefits from marriage that straight couples enjoy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by loriinwa
Why? Gays are not entitled to the same rights as others.
In the state of Washington they are.
By purchasing a license, which usually has to be renewed each year, a business owner is entering a contract with the jurisdiction issuing the license in which the owner agrees to abide by the laws of that jurisdiction.
The florist in Washington broke the law by refusing service to a protected class.
Providing that service in no way interferes with her religious beliefs. No one will prevent her from holding the belief that homosexuality is sinful. No one will make her attend the wedding itself. No one will chain the doors to her church. All she has to do is provide services of her business to every customer willing to pay for them. That is the way it should be in this country.
I disagree with the court ruling in the Hobby Lobby case, too.
Sorry. Came to the party late But yeah I agree with this post. This is America. We have freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and freedom to date/have sex with whomever we choose. If the couple knew about her religion they should've just went to another florist who'd do it. There's businesses everywhere with rainbow flags in the window. Why try to make an example out of her?
You're very late to the party. These guys were long time customers for several years, so she took their money for a decade.
This isn't a case of a radical gay couple who wanted to stir the pot and sought out some very religious bible thumper on purpose to make a statement or file a lawsuit.
She is a moron, all she had to say was "sorry guys I know you're long time customers, but I am already doing a wedding that weekend", yes lie, they could have gone somewhere else and she wouldn't be the center of this controversy.
There are sensible questions about what she did; yours is not among them.
His $$$, his business, was good because she didn't care that he is gay. She cared about serving a marriage, an event.
It's illegal, but this whole she's a hypocrite for accepting his business before the wedding theme is bunk
She clearly cared he was gay at some point. Why do you keep saying she didn't care he was gay when clearly she did? If she didn't care that he was gay she wouldn't care that he was getting married.
No, it's not bunk.
Maybe an analogy will help you.
A gay couple go out to a bar/restaurant. They only frequent the bar side for years.
One night they decide to have dinner in the dining room and our told "sorry you can't eat in here, it's for straight couples only". Their money was good enough for them to sit in the bar, and the owner gladly took it, but don't eat in our dining room.
It is the same thing, if you object to someone's sexuality that much than don't let them in period and don't take their money.
Although illegal, I would have more respect for her if she just didn't take any money from any gays, not pick and choose when it suits her.
Besides from a business standpoint she is a moron, as I already stated she is running a flower shop not an auto repair shop, in other words she could close and would close much quicker than other businesses that are essential in a slow economy.
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But yeah I agree with this post. This is America. We have freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and freedom to date/have sex with whomever we choose. If the couple knew about her religion they should've just went to another florist who'd do it. There's businesses everywhere with rainbow flags in the window. Why try to make an example out of her?
