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Old 05-14-2015, 05:16 PM
 
Location: Maryland about 20 miles NW of DC
6,104 posts, read 5,991,811 times
Reputation: 2479

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Quote:
Originally Posted by VTHokieFan View Post
No Catholic is required to accept a single one of Pope Francis's insane economic or political views.
But if you don't accept the Pope's encyclicals or Bulls you can be excommunicated and barred from Communion with Jesus Christ, refused confession, refused forgiveness for your sins and not be given the last rites. In the old days it would have been a date with the Inquisition and possibly being given trial by high ordeal. Then like Giordano Bruno being burned at the stake.
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Old 05-14-2015, 05:23 PM
 
595 posts, read 368,682 times
Reputation: 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowball7 View Post
The only thing holding it back is the vote of the United States on the Security Council.
If Obama says go, it's a go.
136 Nations Recognize A Palestinian State
All the U.S would have to do is not veto the resolution, since the U.S. (Along with UK, France, Russia, and China) are part of The Big Five and have veto power. All the U.S. has to do is abstain,, the U.S. doesn't even have to vote yes. In my opinion the U.S. should just abstain and not take sides in the Israel/Palestine conflict and abstaining on that vote is the best way to stay out of that conflict, which does not concern the U.S. one bit.
Q+A: Can Palestine become a U.N. member state? | Reuters
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Old 05-14-2015, 06:00 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas
5,864 posts, read 4,980,764 times
Reputation: 4207
Quote:
Originally Posted by VTHokieFan View Post
No it's not.
Distributism directly opposes the concentration of wealth and power into the hands of a few, which is exactly what we have in America. Multinational corporations along with giant banking interests essentially own the American political system and almost all of our politicians. Distributism also opposes unrestrained consumption and materialism, those are the hallmarks of American style capitalism. If a candidate in America ever ran on a distributist platform they would be denounced as as "socialist" and accused as trying to introduce "communism" to America. You might have studied Rerum Novarum but not very well.

Some selected writings from the encyclical:
Quote:
The richer class have many ways of shielding themselves, and stand less in need of help from the State; whereas the mass of the poor have no resources of their own to fall back upon, and must chiefly depend upon the assistance of the State. And it is for this reason that wage-earners, since they mostly belong in the mass of the needy, should be specially cared for and protected by the government
Quote:
As regards the State, the interests of all, whether high or low, are equal. The members of the working classes are citizens by nature and by the same right as the rich; they are real parts, living the life which makes up, through the family, the body of the commonwealth. ... therefore the public administration must duly and solicitously provide for the welfare and the comfort of the working classes; otherwise, that law of justice will be violated which ordains that each man shall have his due
Quote:
Whoever has received from the divine bounty a large share of temporal blessings, whether they be external and material, or gifts of the mind, has received them for the purpose of using them for the perfecting of his own nature, and, at the same time, that he may employ them, as the steward of God's providence, for the benefit of others
Quote:
The following duties bind the wealthy owner and the employer: not to look upon their work-people as their bondsmen, but to respect in every man his dignity as a person ennobled by Christian character. They are reminded that, according to natural reason and Christian philosophy, working for gain is creditable, not shameful, to a man, since it enables him to earn an honorable livelihood; but to misuse men as though they were things in the pursuit of gain, or to value them solely for their physical powers—that is truly shameful and inhuman. Again justice demands that, in dealing with the working man, religion and the good of his soul must be kept in mind. Hence, the employer is bound to see that the worker has time for his religious duties; that he be not exposed to corrupting influences and dangerous occasions; and that he be not led away to neglect his home and family, or to squander his earnings.

Furthermore, the employer must never tax his work people beyond their strength, or employ them in work unsuited to their sex and age. His great and principal duty is to give every one what is just. Doubtless, before deciding whether wages are fair, many things have to be considered; but wealthy owners and all masters of labor should be mindful of this—that to exercise pressure upon the indigent and the destitute for the sake of gain, and to gather one’s profit out of the need of another, is condemned by all laws, human and divine. To defraud any one of wages that are his due is a great crime which cries to the avenging anger of Heaven. "Behold, the hire of the laborers … which by fraud has been kept back by you, crieth; and the cry of them hath entered into the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth." Lastly, the rich must religiously refrain from cutting down the workmen’s earnings, whether by force, by fraud, or by usurious dealing; and with all the greater reason because the laboring man is, as a rule, weak and unprotected, and because his slender means should in proportion to their scantiness be accounted sacred. Were these precepts carefully obeyed and followed out, would they not be sufficient of themselves to keep under all strife and all its causes?Therefore, those whom fortune favors are warned that riches do not bring freedom from sorrow and are of no avail for eternal happiness, but rather are obstacles; that the rich should tremble at the threatenings of Jesus Christ—threatenings so unwonted in the mouth of our Lord(10) and that a most strict account must be given to the Supreme Judge for all we possess.
Quote:
In any case we clearly see, and on this there is general agreement, that some opportune remedy must be found quickly for the misery and wretchedness pressing so unjustly on the majority of the working class: for the ancient workingmen's guilds were abolished in the last century, and no other protective organization took their place. Public institutions and the laws set aside the ancient religion. Hence, by degrees it has come to pass that working men have been surrendered, isolated and helpless, to the hardheartedness of employers and the greed of unchecked competition. The mischief has been increased by rapacious usury, which, although more than once condemned by the Church, is nevertheless, under a different guise, but with like injustice, still practiced by covetous and grasping men. To this must be added that the hiring of labor and the conduct of trade are concentrated in the hands of comparatively few; so that a small number of very rich men have been able to lay upon the teeming masses of the laboring poor a yoke little better than that of slavery itself.
Leo XIII - Rerum Novarum

I suggest you reread the whole encyclical because it diametrically opposes the system of oligarchy and corporatism we have in the United States right now.
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Old 05-14-2015, 08:58 PM
 
Location: USA
31,053 posts, read 22,086,243 times
Reputation: 19086
Quote:
Originally Posted by MX City visiting View Post
Believe me Obama secretly agrees with Palestine and wants to recognize it but scared of Republicans/Pro-Israel and Zionist lobby.
He'll probably do something at the end of his presidency
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Old 05-14-2015, 09:19 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
209 posts, read 134,609 times
Reputation: 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by mwruckman View Post
But if you don't accept the Pope's encyclicals or Bulls you can be excommunicated and barred from Communion with Jesus Christ, refused confession, refused forgiveness for your sins and not be given the last rites. In the old days it would have been a date with the Inquisition and possibly being given trial by high ordeal. Then like Giordano Bruno being burned at the stake.
Based on your comments, I must say that you have a distorted view of Catholicism. (I am a Catholic with a BA in Catholic Theology.)
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Old 05-14-2015, 09:25 PM
 
Location: University City, Philadelphia
22,632 posts, read 14,945,990 times
Reputation: 15935
Somehow I think Israel will survive this.
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Old 05-14-2015, 09:45 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
209 posts, read 134,609 times
Reputation: 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalbound12 View Post
Yet none of Francis' economic or political views falls out of the historic teaching of the Catholic Church. Distributism is the guiding economic theory of the RCC and goes back to the teachings of Pope Leo XIII. It only sounds "insane" to American capitalists who believe that any theory that seeks limits on human consumption or does not kowtow to Wall St. is "communism" or "socialism." I'm not a Catholic and not much of a Francis fan but not a single thing he's said economically is out of the realm of Catholic teaching.
Before Communist Marxism existed, 'social justice' was practiced in the Catholic Church. However, there are fine, but important, distinctions between Communism (called 'Modernism' by the Church.) and social justice practiced by the Catholic Church. The term 'social justice' was borrowed by early 20th century American Progressive, Socialist, and Communist movements…which were often promoted by Protestant and Catholic clergy and congregation!

But don't let this, or Pope Francis, create confusion….Catholic doctrine is very much against Communist doctrine.
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Old 05-14-2015, 10:26 PM
 
2,630 posts, read 1,455,464 times
Reputation: 3595
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rggr View Post
"The problem is the active effort of the Palestinians to end Israel's existence."
I don't have a dog in the fight but anybody can see that with robust building of settlements in Palestinian territory, only one group is going to be pushed into the sea.
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Old 05-15-2015, 05:57 AM
 
1,587 posts, read 1,014,912 times
Reputation: 855
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloforLife View Post
I don't have a dog in the fight but anybody can see that with robust building of settlements in Palestinian territory, only one group is going to be pushed into the sea.
The settlement building in the West Bank isn't anywhere close to pushing anyone into the sea. The West Bank has a Arab population of around 3 million while the settlements make up 300,000.
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Old 05-15-2015, 06:02 AM
 
1,587 posts, read 1,014,912 times
Reputation: 855
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowball7 View Post
The only thing holding it back is the vote of the United States on the Security Council.
If Obama says go, it's a go.
There is a lot more than just a UNSC vote. They don't even have a government nor do they even hold regular elections. Recently the people in the West Bank have been rebelling against the Palestinian Authority and moving towards liking Hamas.
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