MORE U.S. atrocities (Israel, soldier, 9/11, how much)

[katzenfreund]

[quote][quote]

Talk to me after I hear you condemn these acts:

BAQUBA, Iraq (AFP) - A suicide bomber blew himself up at the entrance to a school in the restive city of Baquba on Tuesday, wounding 21 people as the blast ripped through a crowd of teachers and pupils, police said.

You are trying to justify the actions of the US by comparing them to a "suicide bomber"? Killing people is just as wrong, no matter who does it and what goes around comes around. The cycle will never end, because each side uses the other side to justify their actions.

[Frank_Carbonni]

[quote=katzenfreund;2586183][quote]

You are trying to justify the actions of the US by comparing them to a "suicide bomber"? Killing people is just as wrong, no matter who does it and what goes around comes around. The cycle will never end, because each side uses the other side to justify their actions.

It is not about justification. Two wrongs don't make a right.

I think the point is that so many people will often point to a ten civilians killed in a US strike on a rebel stronghold and ignore a rebel suicide bombing on a crowd of civilians where dozens more were killed or will bring up a horrible thing like the My Lai Massacre, yet are usually completely ignorant of the Hue Massacre which killed at least 3 times more people, some estimate over 12 times more.

[katzenfreund]

I understand what you are saying. But no one here has every made excuses for suicide bombers or other murderers. It goes without saying that that type of behavior is wrong and immoral. But the behavior US government should not have to be justified by comparing it to that of criminals and murderers. A very big difference is that the US government is perceived to be acting on the behalf of the people living in this country, paid for with our tax $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
And no, two wrongs don't make a right. Agreed.

[Mooseketeer]

[quote=katzenfreund;2586183][quote]

You are trying to justify the actions of the US by comparing them to a "suicide bomber"? Killing people is just as wrong, no matter who does it and what goes around comes around. The cycle will never end, because each side uses the other side to justify their actions.

I agree, I would have thought the US army would have better morals and a modicum to conscience compared to murdering terrorists. It seems some posters consider their own troops to be justified in doing whatever. After all if some fundamentalist nutters are prepared to leave all rules of morality and decency behind, why should American troops have to be any more above this kind of behaviour.

Yes I do understand that in war , terrible things happen and innocent people die. Except that Iraq was never at war with us, never had anything to do with Al Qaeda and we invaded them not the other way around... And never mind that we have created more car bombers and terrorists in the process...

Even in war we the supposed civilised side should observe a set of rules such as not killing innocent civilians if at all possible.

What a fine example we set those barbaric people we are trying to annihilate. What a superb way to demonstrate our moral superiority.

There seems to be such a blase and quite frankly abhorrent mentality from some quarters about collateral damage.

Collateral damage is a heinous term, used to absolve us from atrocities which make us into monsters. There is no such thing as collateral damage. There are people. Some guilty and some not. Those who are innocent victims are not collateral damage, they are daughters , sons, grand-parents, loved ones.

Two morally aberrant and abhorrent acts do not make a right. Trying to justify those "mistakes" we keep making is not only an insult to the victims but to the memory of the poor people who died on Sept 11, July 7th and 11th March.

I am all for catching the true culprits and punishing them, but resent being patronised and told that in order to do this we must behave like savages.

Being force-fed the party-line that Iraq was a just invasion, that Saddam was something more than a monster to his own people, that WMDs ever existed and that we acted to "rescue" the poor Iraqi people and that we truly wanted to bring them freedom.

Our troops are working under appallingly dangerous conditions, doing a job we should have respect for. It does not mean that we must condone "collateral damage".

However let's not forget who put them there, why and who and put them in a situation where all moral rules of engagement are seen as superfluous.

Yes war is ugly. War kills people. This does not mean that our thin veneer of civilised behaviour should be stripped so easily and we should accept those "mistakes" and acts of war as something to be so blase or jingoistic about it.

We at least at home, should have the decency see those acts as something deplorable, awful and not something to be taken lightly.
What humanity can we claim to possess when some people don't even seem to accept the terrible waste of life .

Whether you agree with this war or not I would have thought anyone with an ounce of human decency would see the deaths of children, elderly people, innocent lives as tragic.Iraqi or not.
Can we not at least weep for the death of innocent fellow human beings even if we believe that it was a tragic "mistake" ?

The mind boggles. Some posters comments amaze me all the more because they come from people who claim Jesus as their leader and believe themselves to be Christians. It makes me weep. So much hatred and whoever gets in the line of fire is fair game.

That IMO makes us no better and animals and certainly no better than the barbarians who think their cause is just too.

[oz in SC]

Ummm,how many civilians were killed in this attack?

Also it is illegal to placew combat forces in civilian areas,why did Al Qaeda do it?

Some of you should read the laws governing warfare,it is available on the internet.

[Mooseketeer]

Originally Posted by oz in SC

Ummm,how many civilians were killed in this attack?

Also it is illegal to placew combat forces in civilian areas,why did Al Qaeda do it?

Some of you should read the laws governing warfare,it is available on the internet.

Al Qaeda isn't an army. It is a bunch of murdering slime-balls and incredibly misguided people who have been brainwashed into believing their cause is just.

I seriously hope we are not trying to emulate their behaviour in any way, including the way "war" is run ?
Just because they behave like savages and barbarians does not mean we have to abandon a modicum of civilised behaviour.

We might as well swell their ranks if we throw in the towel on what is acceptable in terms of conduct of war.

[oz in SC]

Originally Posted by Mooseketeer

Al Qaeda isn't an army. It is a bunch of murdering slime-balls and incredibly misguided people who have been brainwashed into believing their cause is just.

I seriously hope we are not trying to emulate their behaviour in any way, including the way "war" is run ?
Just because they behave like savages and barbarians does not mean we have to abandon a modicum of civilised behaviour.

We might as well swell their ranks if we throw in the towel on what is acceptable in terms of conduct of war.

You miss the point,it is illegal to have your forces positioned among civilians, those to blame are those who placed their forces there.

It has always been that way.

If you admit Al Qaeda is not an army then the laws of war would not apply to them correct?

[sindey]

Originally Posted by Auntie Freda

"The soul of our country needs to be awakened . . .When leaders act contrary to conscience, we must act contrary to leaders " VETERANS Fast for Life

Unfortunatly you are correct.

You will see by the respones you get top your post, people just do not care.

I saw a video of a hospital with the wounded Iraq citizens and 1 woman saw the cameras and begged for Saddam back. She said the atrocities WE are committing over their to the civilians are worse than those committed by Saddam.

We have ruined our relationship with other countrys, we are going into a recession in our own country(possibly even a depression) and after 9/11 this president had the opportunity to unite our people more than ever before.
Instead, we are more divided than ever, and it sickens me to see just how cold and heartless some of our people have become.

We are in a sad situation.

[sindey]

Originally Posted by oz in SC

Ummm,how many civilians were killed in this attack?

Also it is illegal to placew combat forces in civilian areas,why did Al Qaeda do it?

Some of you should read the laws governing warfare,it is available on the internet.

Its almost like, whats the difference on laws governing warfare when you have private companys who don't have to abide by the laws and are not held accountable anyway.
Beside as we have seen recently, if they don't like the laws, they will just change them.
The change is called "amend"

[oz in SC]

Originally Posted by sindey

Its almost like, whats the difference on laws governing warfare when you have private companys who don't have to abide by the laws and are not held accountable anyway.
Beside as we have seen recently, if they don't like the laws, they will just change them.

As this isn't about private companies that is irrelevant.

The laws of war have been changed(and actually NEED to be changed,the laws are quite antiquated if you read them) on occasion but not recently.