Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Thanks I knew you would prove my point. I said nothing about religious beliefs At 8 weeks the fetus reacts to touch which in turn shows it can feel, at 8 weeks the nerves are developing. Look it up..
Reflex reaction to stimuli =/= pain.
Quote:
Pain is an emotional and psychological experience that requires conscious recognition of a noxious stimulus. Consequently, the capacity for conscious perception of pain can arise only after thalamocortical pathways begin to function, which may occur in the third trimester around 29 to 30 weeks’ gestational age (edit: 27 to 28 weeks developmental age),
The unborn child does feel pain before their life is ended
No there is little reason to think that. Your quotes and citations are all talking about the fetus responding to stimulus. No surprise that this distortion of the facts was done by you not citing any actual science papers, but articles specifically on anti abortion websites like MCCL with specifically anti abortion Mission Statements.
No, although they pretend otherwise, this is NOT the same thing as "feeling" pain or having any awareness of it whatsoever. Even an amoeba will respond to light and pin pricks. So it is no surprise a relatively complex entity like a developing fetus would do the same.
What you are doing essentially is, to feed an anti abortion agenda, willfully conflating response to stimulus as feeling or being aware of that stimulus. They are NOT the same things. At all. And it highlights nothing more than the weakness of your anti abortion position that you need to distort and misrepresent facts in order to mislead the public into sharing your stance.
Simple solution: Administer anesthesia to the fetus during 20+ week abortions.
And, I will say this again, why should fetal pain trump maternal pain?
Even if a fetus did feel pain during an abortion, it would last for mere seconds, compared to hours and hours of maternal pain during childbirth.
Some pregnant women suffer weeks or months of discomfort and pain.....back pain, foot/ankle pain, nausea, etc.
So, if we are going to measure this issue according to suffering, the woman's right to avoid pain would trump that of a fetus, hands down.
And that's not taking the pain a fetus experiences during birth into account. Should all women be forced to undergo C-sections to spare the fetus pain?
Simple solution: Administer anesthesia to the fetus during 20+ week abortions.
And, I will say this again, why should fetal pain trump maternal pain?
Even if a fetus did feel pain during an abortion, it would last for mere seconds, compared to hours and hours of maternal pain during childbirth.
Some pregnant women suffer weeks or months of discomfort and pain.....back pain, foot/ankle pain, nausea, etc.
So, if we are going to measure this issue according to suffering, the woman's right to avoid pain would trump that of a fetus, hands down.
And that's not taking the pain a fetus experiences during birth into account. Should all women be forced to undergo C-sections to spare the fetus pain?
All of this talk, much based on actual science, and I can't believe it took someone this long, myself included, to come up with "anesthesia " idea.
Brilliant!
If you are worried about such a thing, and you and/or you and your partner together, are opting for an abortion, talk to the gynecologist performing the procedure about localized anesthesia to the area to be aborted. (Of course this is probably not scientifically necessary and may be as useful as a butter on a kitchen burn but if it makes you feel better, then there is no harm in requesting it.)
Someone up thread mentioned that the "pain" factor is the new anti-choice spin on things. I could not agree more.
Besides all of the physical pain that a woman carrying a baby endures, up to and including possible death, a baby/fetus endures physical pain merely by getting squeezed through the birth canal. Could possibly feel pain in utero, especially if a twin is involved. Ever hear of "parasitic twins?" What can be done about "pain" in that case? A huge hole in the argument regarding fetal pain.
But as I've already said, I personally don't care if there is fetal pain. Life includes pain, literally and figuratively. Even "potential life."
Who would be so swayed as to not have an abortion because a fetus "might" feel pain? It's illogical because even if they can feel pain: 1. If you really care at all about "pain" then you must consider the daily 9 month pain of the person carrying a child, including delivery pain which can result in death or lasting medical problems. 2. Birth itself is painful to a baby. 3. The pain of being abused and neglected is a stronger, longer lasting and more intense pain.
4. There are many "accidents at birth" that cause pain. For example, a close cousin of mine has cerebral palsy because he did not get enough oxygen at birth. He cannot walk and everyday of his life is physically painful. What would anti-choice people propose to do to lessen his pain? Ironically, an abortion would have led to him having less pain. And that contradicts this "pain campaign" right there.
"89-92% of all abortions happen during the first trimester, prior to the 13th week of gestation (AGI/CDC). In*2011, 7.3% of all abortions occurred between 14-20 weeks' gestation; 1.4% occurred ≥21 weeks' gestation (CDC)."
It's 1.4%. NINETEEN PAGES dedicated to "fetal pain" for 1.4% of abortions.
In other words, people are falling for this propaganda campaign not knowing that the percentage of "babies" in question DOES NOT INCLUDE 98.6% OF ALL ABORTIONS.
And if you want to take it to the extreme, which this tread is obviously based on, think about the "vanishing twin." Sounds more painful to be to be slowly flattened over a pregnancy until you cease to exist. But do we ban IVF for this reason? If you are not willing to do so, then you are a hypocrit and have no business talking about "fetal pain."
Question: If Democrats are so compassionate, why don't they ever talk about the excruciating pain fetuses have to go through during an abortion?
Wouldn't you think one of them would propose to mandate that the fetus be anesthesized prior to be killed? Seems these Dems have more compassion for puppies than little babies.
Just one of the reasons I think that party is a bunch of wh*res.
That would require admitting that something living is being killed. No need to anesthetize a lump of cells is there?
However, most research I've read places the ability to feel pain as early as 18 weeks gestation and as late as 20 weeks gestation (there is no doubt that a fetus feels pain after 20 weeks). Doctors sedate and anesthetize fetus's for surgery even earlier than this to avoid the fetus thrashing about during surgery. Take that as you will.
Well, for those that care about their baby, they feel pain as a fetus as they are given pain medication before surgery based on what has been seen and detected: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/17/he...pain.html?_r=0 and Family Research Council Obviously, for a mother who views her baby as a "parasite", they aren't very concerned about possible pain, kind of like when I step on a bug.
Democrats are mostly interested in preserving the well-being of those willing to vote for them right now and not to interested in preserving those that might not vote for them in the future.
Well, for those that care about their baby, they feel pain as a fetus as they are given pain medication before surgery based on what has been seen and detected: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/17/he...pain.html?_r=0 and Family Research Council Obviously, for a mother who views her baby as a "parasite", they aren't very concerned about possible pain, kind of like when I step on a bug.
Democrats are mostly interested in preserving the well-being of those willing to vote for them right now and not to interested in preserving those that might not vote for them in the future.
If the baby were administered anesthetics for the abortion that would be admitting it's something we should care about. That goes against the idea that it is a lump of cells that can be disposed of without consequence or consideration. It doesn't matter if the fetus feels pain or not. It's not something that should be cared for so they don't care whether it feels pain or not. It's much harder to kill something you have empathy for.
Leftists are becoming a bit "educated" today. The meme for years has been "a fetus is just a lump of cells. Turns out that this "lump of cells" has real body parts that are a commodity and up for sale.
They harvest them carefully to maximize PROFIT when they sell the Body Parts.
Last edited by Ibginnie; 07-21-2015 at 08:22 PM..
Reason: deleted quoted post
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I said nothing about religious beliefs At 8 weeks the fetus reacts to touch which in turn shows it can feel, at 8 weeks the nerves are developing. Look it up..
