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Actually I think we are in agreement that the law needs to be either join fully and get the benefits etc., or don't join at all no dues etc., and be on your own with benefits, negotiations etc.
So we both disagree with the Michigan Teacher's Union position, which is if you are a public teacher you are forced to pay Union dues, while actually joining the Union is optional.
Your list of complaints are nonsense. People who come into a unionized workplace who get the benefits of that without being in the union are scabs.
It's companies not unions that usually run pension plans and healthcare plans. I'm in a union I have always voted in private. Employees can vote out a union anytime they want.
The only thing I see is this when union were 35-40% of the workforce, Americans had much more parity in terms of wage growth.
Now that union membership has declined, so have the wages of Americans declined in relation to the wages at the top.
In fact, I can't think of one thing that has gotten better for American workers with declining union membership.
Is the pay better? No. Are the retirement benefits better? No. Is holding on to a job more likely? No is overtime pay more likely now? No.
So while I don't think anything is perfect, I fail to see how declining unionization has aided American workers.
I clearly explained why your point were nonsense. Just reinterating them after they have already been refuted is boring.
I don't care how you feel about unions. You responded to me.
Still avoiding the question, what's gotten better for American workers since union membership in the private sector declined from 35-40% to 6-7%?
You haven't refuted a single point.
And you know you can't, which is why you refuse to write an intellectual argument against my points:
My Union:
1) Coerces me to join and pay dues against my will if I want to be a public school teacher. (Recently changed by Republicans).
2) Mismanages my pension and charges a high management fee to do so.
3) Owns the health insurance provider that gets a contractual monopoly so it can overcharge my school/taxpayers/government well above fair market value for the service. So our school has less money to spend on...education.
4) Denies me private ballots on key votes so I am pressured into voting the "correct way"
5) Doesn't have to recertify as a Union with the workers for 20 to 40 years at a time. I could work an entire career and never have a recertification vote.
If you didn't hold anti-Union positions, where Unions are allowed to abuse workers, which hurts the popularity of unions, unions wouldn't be losing so much ground.
OPERS provides pensions to the majority of the state's public employees. As is done in most public pensions, its board of directors has a mixture of various types of representatives from the public sector, including education, local/county/municipal, state employees, retirees, and miscellaneous public workers. OPERS also has investment advisors with decades of experience in the financial sector and in investments. It is not a pension run by one or even a couple different unions. And by definition most board of directors dealing with public sector organizations have a majority of people who have been public employees so insinuating that "the union" or even a specific union runs the pension program is incorrect. OPERS also has governor appointed members. Our governor is a republican who actually tried to fight public unions. The OPERS pension system is one of the best run in the country and is financially sound unlike other smaller pensions which do not employ board members who have financial experience and a background in investing.
The situations you describe above don't apply to the OPERS system.
You all do have your problems in MI but luckily we don't have those issues here in Ohio and we are still a union state and our economy is growing and if the GOP is smart, they'll seriously consider nominating our governor for the presidency.
OPSERS is majority union positions on the board as my link to the official site pointed out.
I don't know specific instances of union actions like I do for Detroit's or Michigan's pension, yours certainly has less shenanigans than what the Detroit Union was doing.
However, Ohio's pension is 74% funded as of 2013 with a $4.5 Billion shortfall. That is not great, but it has improved under Kasich.
1 of 2 pensions that are 100% funded at the moment is Wisconsin.
"D*&@ you Scott Walker, for guaranteeing that the pension system will be there in years to come for teachers. I hope you rot in hell!!!" -WEA
Unions are harming themselves more than conservatives are.
Why should I want to work for a union that:
1) Coerces me to join and pay dues against my will if I want to be a public school teacher.
2) Mismanages my pension and charges a high management fee to do so.
3) Owns the health insurance provider that gets a contractual monopoly so it can overcharge my school/taxpayers/government well above fair market value for the service. So our school has less money to spend on...education.
4) Denies me private ballots on key votes so I am pressured into voting the "correct way"
5) Doesn't have to recertify as a Union with the workers for 20 to 40 years at a time. I could work an entire career and never have a recertification vote.
Why would I want to stay in my union when they are clearly part of the problem?
Unions need to evolve with the time, become less corrupt, and stop treating their members as property. Unions are making themselves extinct, not conservatives. Conservatives are mostly just fixing the injustices.
My daughter is a public school teacher. She had many options to choose from for health insurance such as aetna and blue cross. The union doesn't own the health insurance provider. And no one coerces anyone to join. And what private ballots are you talking about? My sister is also a teacher and a republican. She is thankful to be part of a union though. Where are you getting your talking points from?
I work in a union shop, and we are admittedly "overpaid" for the work. It's back breaking and extremely long hours, but it's still unskilled manual labor. If it wasn't for the union we would make a small fraction of what we make now. I've only got a few years in so I am not totally in tune with the politics of the job.
An old timer with 35 years was talking to me today and basically telling me if our state becomes a right to work state we are screwed. I know a lot of people think unions are worthless and crooked, but I am wondering if you guys think all states will eventually become right to work, and unions will all disappear? In my own selfishness, I hope not. I do see how people think some blue collar stiff riding a forklift doesn't deserve much, but we can't all be in IT making 6 figures while working remotely from home. If only it were that easy...
If your state becomes right to work you will be replaced by someone cheaper. The union is your friend.
Unions are the Middle Class. It is becoming a fond memory...
And you know you can't, which is why you refuse to write an intellectual argument against my points:
My Union:
1) Coerces me to join and pay dues against my will if I want to be a public school teacher. (Recently changed by Republicans).
2) Mismanages my pension and charges a high management fee to do so.
3) Owns the health insurance provider that gets a contractual monopoly so it can overcharge my school/taxpayers/government well above fair market value for the service. So our school has less money to spend on...education.
4) Denies me private ballots on key votes so I am pressured into voting the "correct way"
5) Doesn't have to recertify as a Union with the workers for 20 to 40 years at a time. I could work an entire career and never have a recertification vote.
If you didn't hold anti-Union positions, where Unions are allowed to abuse workers, which hurts the popularity of unions, unions wouldn't be losing so much ground.
Sure, you can be an idiot and vote against your own livelihood if you want. Hope that helps you pay the mortgage.
And you know you can't, which is why you refuse to write an intellectual argument against my points:
My Union:
1) Coerces me to join and pay dues against my will if I want to be a public school teacher. (Recently changed by Republicans).
2) Mismanages my pension and charges a high management fee to do so.
3) Owns the health insurance provider that gets a contractual monopoly so it can overcharge my school/taxpayers/government well above fair market value for the service. So our school has less money to spend on...education.
4) Denies me private ballots on key votes so I am pressured into voting the "correct way"
5) Doesn't have to recertify as a Union with the workers for 20 to 40 years at a time. I could work an entire career and never have a recertification vote.
If you didn't hold anti-Union positions, where Unions are allowed to abuse workers, which hurts the popularity of unions, unions wouldn't be losing so much ground.
I work in a union shop, and we are admittedly "overpaid" for the work. It's back breaking and extremely long hours, but it's still unskilled manual labor. If it wasn't for the union we would make a small fraction of what we make now. I've only got a few years in so I am not totally in tune with the politics of the job.
An old timer with 35 years was talking to me today and basically telling me if our state becomes a right to work state we are screwed. I know a lot of people think unions are worthless and crooked, but I am wondering if you guys think all states will eventually become right to work, and unions will all disappear? In my own selfishness, I hope not. I do see how people think some blue collar stiff riding a forklift doesn't deserve much, but we can't all be in IT making 6 figures while working remotely from home. If only it were that easy...
all right to work laws do is allow the workers to decertify the union IF they vote in that manner. it also allows people to hire on and not have to join the union to work at the company.
My daughter is a public school teacher. She had many options to choose from for health insurance such as aetna and blue cross. The union doesn't own the health insurance provider. And no one coerces anyone to join. And what private ballots are you talking about? My sister is also a teacher and a republican. She is thankful to be part of a union though. Where are you getting your talking points from?
What state, is she in a public charter, and did a Republican recently change the law?
I am a teacher and every point I said is true or was true until Snyder changed it.
I support Unions, unions that aren't corrupt and anti-freedom. They need to evolve with the times like in Germany.
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