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This is what non-believers like to tell themselves, but it simply isn't true.
Many of the founding fathers were very active Christians.
The part you bolded "But what I'm also thankful for is that the founders of this nation were moral people who were guided by God?" is unequivocally 100% true.
That doesn't mean they were all Christians or religious zealots, but make no mistake they acknowledged the laws of God and the hand of God in the formation of this country.
They all believed in God for the most part, with Jefferson and Franklin being the most hostile towards the whole thing, but the difference between today and back then that get missed is that while they believed in a higher being and God, most of them took obvious objections to the organized Christian religion (other religions just "didn't exist" back then for all intents). Reading more on the subject you can see the degree to which they are upset with Christianity as a religion and especially the leaders and rules of the religion. Christianity is manmade, its rules and stories are all manmade.
They are most certainly religious, but they couldn't stand organized religion as it evolved and became less about spirituality and more about rules, churches and leaders.
The Christian religion is nothing more than a madmade hijacking of spiritality in its purest form. All religions are manmade organizations that people either join through birth, choice or force.
Most people just don't know any better because you joined at birth through your parents and everyone else you know. I'm not religious myself, it's never interested me other than researching and general curiosity. I was Christian until I was old enough to choose for myself, and I politely gave it all up. I don't blame anyone else for choosing to be religious, but if you try to tell me you're better than me because you are and I'm not - or that I'm "lost" or "going to hell" or somehow in battle with you just through not believing myself - well then we have a problem and you need to step back into line. We're all living in a society after all.
Or when god sacrificed at least 20,000 people to punish David by causing his son to rebel against him.
Or when god commanded the Israelites to kill ever man, woman, and child of the city of Jericho.
So? God is not running for God. As the Almighty creator of all things, he is categorically different and therefore not bound to your definition of right and wrong.
The Bible is barbaric and full of human and animal sacrifices. Will divorce be punishable by death?
If the religious people in this country really believe in GOD's LAW, what exactly IS that law?
They very carefully pick and choose what they want to follow as law as it suits them. In other words, it's quite all right to file for divorce, but not to issue marriage licenses to same sex couples.
The Bible is barbaric and full of human and animal sacrifices. Will divorce be punishable by death?
If the religious people in this country really believe in GOD's LAW, what exactly IS that law?
Simple: God's Law kick in when other people do something the Holies do not approve of.
For example, God's Law needs to be applied to homosexuality, because the majority of the congregation isn't interested, and so they get to feel better than the gays. On the other hand, we most certainly do not want to use the God's Law argument on adultery because - let's face it - tons of good, upstanding Christians are jumping in and out of other people's beds, or want to.
In other words, God's Law is there to tell those outside the congregation to mend their ways.
The Bible is barbaric and full of human and animal sacrifices. Will divorce be punishable by death?
If the religious people in this country really believe in GOD's LAW, what exactly IS that law?
You are confusing the old testament with the new, which seems to be the goto position of atheists and many agnostics.
The Old Testament is the Torah. The New Testament is Christ's teachings and the entire foundation of the Christian religion.
The key to understanding the relationship between the Christian and the Law is knowing that the Old Testament law was given to the nation of Israel, not to Christians. Some of the laws were to reveal to the Israelites how to obey and please God (the Ten Commandments, for example). Some of the laws were to show the Israelites how to worship God and atone for sin (the sacrificial system). Some of the laws were intended to make the Israelites distinct from other nations (the food and clothing rules). None of the Old Testament law is binding on Christians today. When Jesus died on the cross, He put an end to the Old Testament law
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian,
By abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago60614
They all believed in God for the most part, with Jefferson and Franklin being the most hostile towards the whole thing, but the difference between today and back then that get missed is that while they believed in a higher being and God, most of them took obvious objections to the organized Christian religion (other religions just "didn't exist" back then for all intents). Reading more on the subject you can see the degree to which they are upset with Christianity as a religion and especially the leaders and rules of the religion. Christianity is manmade, its rules and stories are all manmade.
NO!
They were upset with the Church of England and their bastardization of Christianity.
Franklin: he occasionally worshiped at Christ Church, the Church of England parish established in colonial Philadelphia in 1695 and later reorganized into the Protestant Episcopal Church in the United States of America. <<HE became a Protestant as an adult!
Jefferson: Yep, he was certainly a deist. However, we could learn something from his premise.
"The rights of conscience we never submitted, we could not submit. We are answerable for them to our God. The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg. ... Reason and free enquiry are the only effectual agents against error."
Atheists and Christians alike should take up such a PoV.
Both sides are trying to rewrite history, attempting to make it conform to their own personal beliefs. Many say Washington was a deist, however he also had a hand in building many churches during his life... which is entirely counter to the notion.
So? God is not running for God. As the Almighty creator of all things, he is categorically different and therefore not bound to your definition of right and wrong.
No one is bound by my definition of right and wrong but me.
I feel free to judge, however, and no deity is exempt from my judgment. I find them all sadly lacking.
They all believed in God for the most part, with Jefferson and Franklin being the most hostile towards the whole thing, but the difference between today and back then that get missed is that while they believed in a higher being and God, most of them took obvious objections to the organized Christian religion (other religions just "didn't exist" back then for all intents). Reading more on the subject you can see the degree to which they are upset with Christianity as a religion and especially the leaders and rules of the religion. Christianity is manmade, its rules and stories are all manmade.
They are most certainly religious, but they couldn't stand organized religion as it evolved and became less about spirituality and more about rules, churches and leaders.
The Christian religion is nothing more than a madmade hijacking of spiritality in its purest form. All religions are manmade organizations that people either join through birth, choice or force.
I can agree with your entire post until you have to go and try to discredit Christianity.
There really isn't any reason for it in this discussion. That is your opinion so it really does your post a disservice by slipping in among what is mostly an honest observation of the founding fathers and what they did or didn't believe, with a self serving proclamation of what YOU perceive religion to be.
Yes, the majority of religious leaders typically get corrupted, as do "leaders" of anything. Power corrupts.
God broke one of the 10 commandments repeatedly, number 6, Thou Shalt Not Kill. He murdered millions of men, women and children, according to the Bible.
Simple: God's Law kick in when other people do something the Holies do not approve of.
For example, God's Law needs to be applied to homosexuality, because the majority of the congregation isn't interested, and so they get to feel better than the gays. On the other hand, we most certainly do not want to use the God's Law argument on adultery because - let's face it - tons of good, upstanding Christians are jumping in and out of other people's beds, or want to.
In other words, God's Law is there to tell those outside the congregation to mend their ways.
The gay issue is very interesting in this day and age. Most sins people talk about are things that you actively choose to do. Cheat on your wife, steal, kill, lie.... Being gay is something that simply isn't up to choice. People are born gay, and there doesn't seem to be any other underlying disposition. It can happen to anyone, doesn't matter their race, where they live, who their parents are. It's a "sin", but it's not up to the person who happens to be the "sinner".
It's like saying you're a sinner if you have curly hair, are short, blue eyes, asian, etc.
Then people say "well the act is the sin, not the person, so it's all cool. Right. That's even more offensive and evil than just coming out and saying the person is a sin. So you're totally cool with them being born gay, BUT, you don't want them to ever act on their feelings, fall in love, have a relationship or be happy in their own skin. You might as well say that you personally want them to be depressed and commit suicide...because your congregation told you so. So horrid and evil spirited.
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