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I agree that the social contract is illegitimate. What do we do about it? Absolutely nothing. We can still use the public roads and infrastructure and enjoy the safety and protection of the state, all while feeling morally superior to those stupid statists who do the exact same thing. The difference is we're enlightened and they're not. It's the best of both worlds. I can see where you guys are coming from now. There's nothing hypocritical about it at all.
In my mind, it's obvious that the market can handle any needs that people have, but I realize that not everyone agrees. If you admit that the state is illegitimate, I don't understand why you're trying to find reasons it won't work, instead of trying to honestly research how it could work. I bet you wouldn't put as much effort into it as I have the past few years (reading, watching YouTube videos, listening to podcasts, watching debates, etc.). I'm more interested in discussing it with people who honestly want a free society. That's why I'm at least focusing on showing that us "anarchists" aren't wrong in criticizing the system, so at least people won't blow us off and act like our complaints are ridiculous. From there, I think there will be more people jumping on board, and then we'll see where it goes.
In my mind, it's obvious that the market can handle any needs that people have, but I realize that not everyone agrees. If you admit that the state is illegitimate, I don't understand why you're trying to find reasons it won't work, instead of trying to honestly research how it could work. I bet you wouldn't put as much effort into it as I have the past few years (reading, watching YouTube videos, listening to podcasts, watching debates, etc.). I'm more interested in discussing it with people who honestly want a free society. That's why I'm at least focusing on showing that us "anarchists" aren't wrong in criticizing the system, so at least people won't blow us off and act like our complaints are ridiculous. From there, I think there will be more people jumping on board, and then we'll see where it goes.
I've spent plenty of time researching these concepts, which is why I've developed the opinions that I hold. I was a massive Ron Paul supporter in 2008 and donated money and countless hours into campaigning and funding. This is when I first discovered anarcho-capitalist ideas and had more interactions with anarchists than I care to remember. I found that the vast majority of them contributed absolutely nothing and just enjoyed complaining. Even people like me, who wanted to move the United States in a more libertarian direction, were just statists in their eyes. They claimed we were just supporting the system by helping his campaign. Instead of doing anything constructive, they would come to our message boards and try to pick apart everything that we were doing. I've found that most anarchists just get off pretending that they are ideological purists while their actions tell a whole different story.
In my mind, it's obvious that the market can handle any needs that people have, but I realize that not everyone agrees. If you admit that the state is illegitimate, I don't understand why you're trying to find reasons it won't work, instead of trying to honestly research how it could work. I bet you wouldn't put as much effort into it as I have the past few years (reading, watching YouTube videos, listening to podcasts, watching debates, etc.). I'm more interested in discussing it with people who honestly want a free society. That's why I'm at least focusing on showing that us "anarchists" aren't wrong in criticizing the system, so at least people won't blow us off and act like our complaints are ridiculous. From there, I think there will be more people jumping on board, and then we'll see where it goes.
As long as morality remains pragmatic in western philosophy it will be hard for people to abandon the state.
It doesn't help that modern society is enamored with megalomaniacs in every walk of life.
I've spent plenty of time researching these concepts, which is why I've developed the opinions that I hold. I was a massive Ron Paul supporter in 2008 and donated money and countless hours into campaigning and funding. This is when I first discovered anarcho-capitalist ideas and had more interactions with anarchists than I care to remember. I found that the vast majority of them contributed absolutely nothing and just enjoyed complaining. Even people like me, who wanted to move the United States in a more libertarian direction, were just statists in their eyes. They claimed we were just supporting the system by helping his campaign. Instead of doing anything constructive, they would come to our message boards and try to pick apart everything that we were doing. I've found that most anarchists just get off pretending that they are ideological purists while their actions tell a whole different story.
I can see how that would be annoying. I try not to come across as "my view is superior to yours and you need to follow my ideas instead", because that's not the case. I actually view it as "you're a good person with good intentions, but I think you've been conditioned into believing things that aren't true and that go against your own beliefs." I really just want to point out the ideas in people's heads that are contradictory and can't possibly coexist, but that we aren't even aware of until it's laid out for us.
I honestly don't feel superior at all. I was a "statist" my whole life until I came across a few YouTube videos on accident, so I know all the ways my brain tried to avoid ideas that made me uncomfortable. It look some time for it to click, but now that it did I can't undo what I've come to understand. I can't go back to holding irrational ideas, but I understand why people do sometimes.
As long as morality remains pragmatic in western philosophy it will be hard for people to abandon the state.
It doesn't help that modern society is enamored with megalomaniacs in every walk of life.
But there is always hope!
Yeah...I think you have to be in search of the truth, be as objective as possible, take your ego out of it so you're willing to admit you were wrong most of your life, and just not be afraid of where the logic takes you. That's how it happened for me.
People will often say "if you don't like it here, move to ______", or "you agree to the laws of the land by living here". If you've ever said something like that, that's based on the Social Contract Theory...that you consent to government force being used against you if you don't obey them. If that argument was used in court today, imagine how it would go:
So why do people keep using this argument? If someone says they don't consent to their money being taken and used on things like war, the welfare state, and other things they find destructive, or if they don't agree with many of the laws being enforced, why do people act like they're in the wrong? They never agreed to any contract, so they have no obligation to fulfill it...right?
These following words
WE THE PEOPLE of the United States, in order to form a perfect union, establish justice , insure domestic tranquility provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our posterity , do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
represent the greatest and most enduring Social Contract existing in the world today. The US Constitution is written like a contract and contracts are inclusive acceptance of it in its entirety come when you get citizenship by birth or naturalization and contracts are not to be like a menu where you can pick and chose what you like and can then ignore the parts you don't like. Rejection of any part of the US Constitution or the laws duly created under its provisions by its empowered officers legislative, executive or judicial means one rejects what it means to be an American. I have no patience with such people and would strip them of their citizenship and treat them like any other alien. If they lift a hand against the United States or ignore its laws, an ENEMY ALIEN.
I've spent plenty of time researching these concepts, which is why I've developed the opinions that I hold. I was a massive Ron Paul supporter in 2008 and donated money and countless hours into campaigning and funding. This is when I first discovered anarcho-capitalist ideas and had more interactions with anarchists than I care to remember. I found that the vast majority of them contributed absolutely nothing and just enjoyed complaining. Even people like me, who wanted to move the United States in a more libertarian direction, were just statists in their eyes. They claimed we were just supporting the system by helping his campaign. Instead of doing anything constructive, they would come to our message boards and try to pick apart everything that we were doing. I've found that most anarchists just get off pretending that they are ideological purists while their actions tell a whole different story.
That's kind of what I see with the statist comments from anarcho-capitalists who just reject my fears of why anarcho-capitalism wouldn't work in the world we know it as today and more importantly the problem with how they want to bring about change. I'm sorry but cheerleading economic collapse is not attractive for any method of change even I'd they want to be non-aggressive. To me it shows pettiness. I don't get the modern day logic of wanting something to go out of business though at times I have wished one or two bad locations to st the least change management if they were poorly run.
WE THE PEOPLE of the United States, in order to form a perfect union, establish justice , insure domestic tranquility provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our posterity , do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
represent the greatest and most enduring Social Contract existing in the world today. The US Constitution is written like a contract and contracts are inclusive acceptance of it in its entirety come when you get citizenship by birth or naturalization and contracts are not to be like a menu where you can pick and chose what you like and can then ignore the parts you don't like. Rejection of any part of the US Constitution or the laws duly created under its provisions by its empowered officers legislative, executive or judicial means one rejects what it means to be an American. I have no patience with such people and would strip them of their citizenship and treat them like any other alien. If they lift a hand against the United States or ignore its laws, an ENEMY ALIEN.
So what exactly are you upset about? Is it offensive that I don't agree to the contract?
The founders were smart guys and I respect them a lot, but they still thought that writing things on a piece of paper can grant the right to tax and enforce laws on anyone living here...and even worse, that it gives the right to do that to people 200+ years in the future. My post showed why that isn't a valid contract. I have a simple line of questioning for you:
1. Can one person delegate a right that they don't have themselves?
2. Can two people delegate a right that neither of them have themselves?
3. Can any number of people delegate a right that none of them have?
4. Where did Congress get the right to tax?
Yes, when a human child is born, he is left in the woods where he is free to roam and fend for himself, much like a reptilian born from an egg. We are all born free and have no obligations to anyone else. How can people not understand this? Stupid statists.
I honestly thought at least part of this was said in jest.
Sharia is not based on Social Contract Theory. Nor is Juche.
Even those are based on Social Contract Theory, the rules &/or laws are different than most Countries.
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