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I fully agree with this post. It's basically the same concept I was posting about, only in reverse.
I think (?) your point is that it goes both ways? If yes, I agree. I guess my point is that it goes both ways, but then you have people like Kim Davis, and more importantly the PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES who are now rallying behind her, having rally's with thousands of cheering people, with the sole goal of inflicting their beliefs on others, and then calling it "persecution" when people call shenanigans.
I heard a good analogy. It went something like this: "Kim Davis is claiming to be the victim. She isn't like Rosa Parks though, she's more like the Bus Driver who wouldn't let Mrs. Parks sit in the front of the bus." (could you imagine the bus driver claiming that he's being persecuted because people wouldn't allow him to follow his belief that blacks should be quarantined to the back of the bus?)
^This.
I actually have more sympathy for someone who runs their own bakery and doesn't want to bake a cake for a gay wedding than I do with Kim Davis. She is an elected official who is sworn to uphold the Constitution. She is thumbing her nose at the rule of law. She deserves to be held in contempt of court for her actions and should be removed from her position.
This isn't a 1st Amendment issue. No one is telling her that she cannot worship God how she sees fit. Only that she can't use her position as a government official to force her views on others. I think that John Oliver said it best when he said the Constitution isn't like the invincibility star on Super Mario Bros. It doesn't allow you to do whatever the f--- you want.
I'm on the left myself, not talking trash. But it is a factual statement to say that there are militant atheists on the left that do actively enjoy taking shots at Christianity. They aren't a majority of Democrats but they are out there. I've known some myself.
If you don't believe me, ask why so many of the über PC left will gladly mock Christians for some of their more retrograde beliefs (think abortion, gay marriage, etc) but yet will loudly condemn even the most pedestrian critiques of Islam, a religion that has an awful record on supposed liberal values (like free speech, women's rights, gay rights, etc.) There is a double standard at play. I think it's fair to criticize my own side when it's deserved.
That being said, I don't believe Christians are being persecuted in this country. Mocked perhaps, but not persecuted. Persecution requires much more than simply not being given the deference that one feels they are entitled to.
ABout 71% of our country identifies as Christian so Christianity has power here. Yes, some of the mocking can go too far. But one must understand that it is the Christians in this country that are in control and have the power to make their retrograde beliefs into law. They did in several states by making same gender marriage illegal - at least until SCOTUS ruled those laws unconstitutional this past June. As far as Muslims go, they represent less than 1% of our population. They have no power here and they are not making waves. There is currently a stewardess that is refusing to serve alcohol for a PRIVATE company. I capitalize to show the importance between private and public. There was a cab driver that refused fairs carrying alcohol or dogs. I believe he was fired. Regardless, we do not have large groups of Muslims doing anything in THIS country for us to mock. For example, they are not protecting the Kim Davis's of the world like the Oath Keepers do. Oath Keepers Send Armed Guards To Protect Kim Davis From US Marshals | Right Wing Watch
Also, by not condemning all 1.6 BILLION Muslims in the world, does not mean condoning the disgusting treatment of women and the LGBT community. More often then not, the posters here advocate committing genocide against all Muslims. As is killing all the men, women and children. It makes one wonder which, if any, religion is one of peace.
Bottom line to OP, no, Christians are not persecuted in this country. It is ludicrous to even imagine this as being anywhere close to reality. Heck, the fact that there are multiple places of worship for them in every fricking town, village and city is proof enough.
Are Christians really persecuted here in the USA?
Carlos Santana never shuts up about his mystical beliefs during his gigs and the audience sits there doe-eyed and claps. Were Carlos discussing being Born Again and his love of Christ, I cannot believe the response would be as positive.
We Americans are enthralled with mythology and mysticism so long as it has nothing to do with Jesus.
Carlos Santana might not belong to the same church you do but he is a devout Christian who often shares his testimony about his experience with the risen Jesus.
Quote:
He [Carlos] described going to light a candle (at church) and hearing the accusing voices inside tearing him down, but in the end hearing the voice of the Lord Jesus break through the others reminding him that He was with him, and it brought him renewed "joy."
I'm on the left myself, not talking trash. But it is a factual statement to say that there are militant atheists on the left that do actively enjoy taking shots at Christianity. They aren't a majority of Democrats but they are out there. I've known some myself.
If you don't believe me, ask why so many of the über PC left will gladly mock Christians for some of their more retrograde beliefs (think abortion, gay marriage, etc) but yet will loudly condemn even the most pedestrian critiques of Islam, a religion that has an awful record on supposed liberal values (like free speech, women's rights, gay rights, etc.) There is a double standard at play. I think it's fair to criticize my own side when it's deserved.
That being said, I don't believe Christians are being persecuted in this country. Mocked perhaps, but not persecuted. Persecution requires much more than simply not being given the deference that one feels they are entitled to.
^^^Atheist here and I can see this. Most all Christians in my family and even in this country don't fit the "evil white, anti gay Christian" profile that the ultra leftist seem try to promote. I drive down my street on my way to work and drive by a Korean Church, an African Church, an African American Church and even a Church with a Gay flag out front. Don't see all of these evil Christians that some leftist try to promote. As a matter a fact I bet many of their relatives are moderate Christians too.
^^^Atheist here and I can see this. Most all Christians in my family and even in this country don't fit the "evil white, anti gay Christian" profile that the ultra leftist seem try to promote. I drive down my street on my way to work and drive by a Korean Church, an African Church, an African American Church and even a Church with a Gay flag out front. Don't see all of these evil Christians that some leftist try to promote. As a matter a fact I bet many of their relatives are moderate Christians too.
Well, you must admit that your normal, everyday Christian doesn't make the news. The public face of Christianity has become Josh Duggar and Kim Davis. That's unfortunate.
This will end as those 'identifying as Christians' die off.
"The Christian share of the U.S. population is declining, while the number of U.S. adults who do not identify with any organized religion is growing, according to an extensive new survey by the Pew Research Center. Moreover, these changes are taking place across the religious landscape, affecting all regions of the country and many demographic groups. While the drop in Christian affiliation is particularly pronounced among young adults, it is occurring among Americans of all ages."
As for persecution--that is laughable. Christians in the US have no idea what persecution is, but here is a clue--it ain't saying "Happy Holidays". Talk to Holocaust survivors or the Syrian refugees if you want to know what actual persecution is. The blather from the 'victims' claiming persecution of christians in the US is meaningless PR and spin.
So there I am, a principal in a middle school where choral music was an elective class. I had warned my choral teacher over and over that "winter concerts" (which they insisted had to be 3 school days before Christmas) should be secular because about 12% of our students were non-Christians. But she persisted, even though I gave her a list of DOZENS of non-religious Christmas and winter songs which could be performed. Then one year, the day after the "winter concert", a Muslim mother came in sobbing (with her husband present), asking why I was requiring her Muslim daughter to sing Christian songs praising Jesus Christ. So I went down to the choral classroom with a sub and had the teacher relieved to come up and talk with the parents. The mother was crying uncontrollably. The father was pounding his fist and yelling. And I just sat there until they were done. I ended the conference. And after the parents left, I turned to the teacher and said, "Now do you get it?" And yes, when she was on the hot seat, experiencing the wrath, instead of others absorbing it for her...she got it. It was never a problem again. Until a few years later when we got a new choral teacher.
I worked in a public library. The most popular preschool in the area wanted to bring her group of children into the library for a visit and story time about Christmas. She asked me if I had a picture book with the real Christmas story to read to her preschool that was located in a Presbyterian Church. Not realizing I was doing anything wrong, I found a book called "And It Came to Pass." It was the real Christmas story with about one line per page with illustrations; a book I took from our children's library shelf.
I was called into the director's office and she explained to me that if the preschool wanted a Christian story read to their children, the director of the school would have to read it to them because it was not allowed for me to do that.
I feel we have a duplicity here in our two experiences. We can accommodate the Muslim's and everybody else except the Christians. Our constitution says freedom of, not from, religion. My opinion is that Christians in America are being treated unfairly. There were a lot of things my children were subjected to in school that I would have preferred they not learn. I don't really like Halloween. We have friends that do not believe their child should be told there is a Santa because he isn't real. We just have to suck it up and go with the flow.
I realize that is the way it is but I don't like it and I don't think Christians are the only people who should have to accommodate others. In my opinion, the Muslin child should have been allowed not to participate in singing the song. I basically did what the lady in Kentucky did. I stopped having anything about any holiday. My public story times were not as good after that because I had celebrated every holiday. I think that was educational. I took the alphabet and did one letter a week. Because of all this political correctness, do you have any idea about how many good books have been absolutely ruined. I gave my daughter-in-law, who teaches in a private school, a group of books that came with my encyclopedias about 50 years ago. One of the Christmas stories in it I had to adjust was about the spiders who wanted to see the Christmas tree. The story had a Christmas Angel in it and that wasn't legal for me to read. There are all kinds of books written about that story now but none of them come anywhere near to being as good as the original story that has a Christmas Angel.
I am curious? Do you have Kwanza in your school. I remember finding books for many public school teachers about it. Do you teach evolution? Nobody today ever thinks that Christian parents would not want their children to be subjected to this. Jewish parents have things they would prefer their children not learn either. I have had parents come into the library discussing that the teacher had real witches visit so the children could know about them. They didn't like it but it was a public school and if they wanted their child to get educated, what choice did they have?
I think my revelation came when my son was in the sixth grade and was out sick for a while and needed to catch up with his classes. I started reading his social studies book to him because his eyes were still weak from the illness and was absolutely "floored" when I read that Christians worship "god" (little g) and people in other countries worship many "Gods" (capital G). I hoped it was a typo, but I looked through the rest of the book and decided it wasn't.
My suggestion to any parent of any child in a public school is that they go through their children's books and see what they are being taught. I took my child out of that school and put him in a private Christian school and it was the best thing I ever did for him.
I feel we have a duplicity here in our two experiences. We can accommodate the Muslim's and everybody else except the Christians. Our constitution says freedom of, not from, religion. My opinion is that Christians in America are being treated unfairly. There were a lot of things my children were subjected to in school that I would have preferred they not learn. I don't really like Halloween. We have friends that do not believe their child should be told there is a Santa because he isn't real. We just have to suck it up and go with the flow.
I realize that is the way it is but I don't like it and I don't think Christians are the only people who should have to accommodate others. In my opinion, the Muslin child should have been allowed not to participate in singing the song. I basically did what the lady in Kentucky did. I stopped having anything about any holiday. My public story times were not as good after that because I had celebrated every holiday. I think that was educational. I took the alphabet and did one letter a week. Because of all this political correctness, do you have any idea about how many good books have been absolutely ruined. I gave my daughter-in-law who teaches in a private school a group of books that came with my encyclopedias about 50 years ago. One of the Christmas stories in it I had to adjust was about the spiders who wanted to see the Christmas tree. The story had a Christmas Angel in it and that wasn't legal for me to read. There are all kinds of books written about that story now but none of them come anywhere near to being as good as the original story that has a Christmas Angel.
I am curious? Do you have Kwanza in your school. I remember finding books for many public school teachers about it. Do you teach evolution? Nobody today ever thinks that Christian parents would not want their children to be subjected to this. Jewish parents have things they would prefer their children not learn either. I have had parents come into the library discussing that the teacher had real witches visit so the children could know about them. They didn't like it but it was a public school and if they wanted their child to get educated, what choice did they have?
I think my revelation came when my son was in the sixth grade and was out sick for a while and needed to catch up with his classes. I started reading his social studies book to him because his eyes were still weak from the illness and was absolutely "floored" when I read that Christians worship "god" (little g) and people in other countries worship many "Gods" (capital G). I hoped it was a typo, but I looked through the rest of the book and decided it wasn't.
My suggestion to any parent of any child in a public school is that they go through their children's books and see what they are being taught. I took my child out of that school and put him in a private Christian school and it was the best thing I ever did for him.
In regard to Halloween, that was quite an issue at our school. I had been the assistant principal for quite a few years there before becoming principal. We had a group of teachers who dressed up for Halloween...which I thought was stupid, but at that time I wasn't the principal. But what really got me about it was that those same teachers who dressed up for Halloween were adamant that the students should not dress up for Halloween. Talk about hypocrisy! So when I became principal, I involved the PTA and the teachers, and then enforced my own decision. The majority of parents wanted students to be able to dress for Halloween, and wanted the teachers to be able to do so. So that's what I agreed to (with a few basic rules such as no student could be disguised to the extent we could not identify him). I still considered it to be a no win situation.
No one ever brought up Kwanza at our school, although I was aware of it. It may have been because the upper class White population in our attendance area were dominant, while the Black and Latino minority felt relatively powerless.
When I was a teacher of earth science I taught evolution because it was in the state curriculum, and my class was science, not religion.
If teachers and principals are doing their jobs, they are not deciding the curriculum. In most states (maybe all?), curriculum is determined at the state level and the schools are managed by the Board Of Education. Teachers and principals are paid to do the bidding of the state board of education and the local board of education, not what they personally may want to teach.
For all the adulation it has garnered, Kim Davis' stance is deeply confused, not least because issuing licences to pairs of men or women who want to get hitched would not imply her moral approval of their unions. It would signify only that the couples had met the legal requirements for marriage. Ms Davis is fully entitled to her horror, but it is irrelevant to her duties.
That choice does not amount to a tyrannical imposition on her freedom. It simply means that, as a public official, she is bound to uphold the law. To compare her recalcitrance, as some admirers have, to the refusal of Rosa Parks to give up her seat on a Montgomery bus, or to the 19th-century figures who declined to return runaway slaves, is absurd.
The truth, though, is that Americans’ freedom to practise their faiths is robustly defended by both the constitution and federal law. The rights of the godly are actually much more secure than those of gay Americans—who still lack federal protection from prejudice like that granted to other groups by the Civil Rights Act of 1964. In most states of America homophobes can still legally discriminate against homosexuals, married or otherwise. That is a much graver scandal than Ms Davis’s theatrical refusal to do her job.
Food for thought..
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Talk to Holocaust survivors or the Syrian refugees if you want to know what actual persecution is. The blather from the 'victims' claiming persecution of christians in the US is meaningless PR and spin.
