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Marijuana has nothing to do with any drug-caused problems that Colorado or any other state has. When you're seeing drug-addled shells of human beings stealing and committing crimes, shooting up in alleys, terrorizing their families, those aren't people whose only vice is pot. No debate that marijuana is significantly stronger than it was a generation or two ago, but it's still not even on the same plane as drugs like meth and heroin.
For the record, I'm of the opinion that all drugs should be legalized for a variety of reasons that many other posters on this thread have articulated. But there is a big difference between marijuana and those others as far as their impact on the users as well as their communities.
and I do not totally disagree with some of what you are saying, but much of it, I do. There are pot problems in Colorado as well as other drug problems. No, the pot heads have nothing to do with the hard drug users. As for the pot not being any stronger today: I am only going by what I have read and what a member of our family that does use pot has to say on the subject.
I am certainly not going along with your idea All drugs should be legalized. That is just nutty as far as I am concerned.
From a Pew Research Poll from a couple years ago - "About six-in-ten (59%) of Democrats favor the legalization of marijuana use compared to 37% of Republicans — a difference of 22 percentage points."
and I do not totally disagree with some of what you are saying, but much of it, I do. There are pot problems in Colorado as well as other drug problems. No, the pot heads have nothing to do with the hard drug users. As for the pot not being any stronger today: I am only going by what I have read and what a member of our family that does use pot has to say on the subject.
I am certainly not going along with your idea All drugs should be legalized. That is just nutty as far as I am concerned.
I think you may have misread one of the things I said... I agree with you that pot is stronger now than it used to be.
Regarding the argument that all drugs should be legalized, it's not nutty at all when the arguments are really examined. To reiterate something I posted earlier, I do not use illegal drugs of any kind. But I do drink. It confounds me that the latter is legal while the other isn't, given that alcohol is another intoxicating substance with many behavioral and health consequences for overuse and misuse...just like all those substances that are illegal.
Philosophically, I understand there are many differences of opinion on the subject. If you believe it is immoral, that is your personal choice not to use drugs for that reason. But neither you or I have any business telling anyone what they should and shouldn't do with their bodies regardless of whether we agree with it or not. The government shouldn't be doing that either.
Also, there is a difference of opinion as to whether drug addition (a legitimate and very real problem), is a criminal issue or a public health issue. I strongly believe it is the latter, yet we treat it like the former. That's not going to help the situation get better. By shifting public policy focus from law enforcement to treatment, you attack the root of the problem rather than just a symptom. Also, many problem users decline to seek treatment for fear of legal consequences. Legalize drugs, and you eliminate that stigma. That, along with a shifted policy focus toward treatment, means that problem users and options to get healthy are more likely to be brought together.
Financially, the drug war is a lost cause and a drain on both financial and human resources, with billions spent on it every year. Legalizing drugs reverses that situation and gives each state a very substantial additional revenue stream. Treat it like alcohol and cigarettes and tax it like crazy. Underfunded schools? Cutbacks in police forces? Say hello to the financial windfall you have been looking for.
From a crime perspective, legalizing all drugs eliminates the single largest economic base for the vast majority of organized crime activity in the United States. Gangs of all kinds derive their power from their economic control on neighborhoods and communities. Gangs will always be around as long as there are marginalized and depressed populations within a society, but the level of damage they can do to their communities and the violence that they can cause can be minimized by eliminating the way they make their money and exercise their control over a neighborhood.
Huge numbers of people are incarcerated in America for non-violent drug crimes. Meanwhile, violent offenders are being granted early release sometimes only a few years into otherwise lengthy sentences due to a lack of space. Legalize drugs and the prison overcrowding problem goes away. Police, prosecutors, and judges spend an inordinate amount of time and resources investigating low-level, usually non-violent drug crimes. Legalize drugs and you do away with a large amount of the manpower-related red tape that clogs up our police investigative capacity and legal system.
I could go on about this with about 10 more points, but you get the idea...this post is long enough. lol
One common counter-argument to legalization is that drug use and addition would spike. I strongly believe that this would not be the case. When it comes to drugs, people can basically be broken into three groups:
Group 1 - Non-users. I think we can all agree that drugs are readily available now regardless of their illegality, albeit to differing degrees depending on what substance we're talking about. Using this assumption, we can say that non-users are non-users by choice. The only ones who may be more likely to begin using are the people whose sole reason for electing not to use was the illegality of it. Various studies and polls have been done over the years, with most conclusively saying that there would not be some enormous spike in use were drugs to become legal. For evidence that this is likely accurate, you have to look no further than the study cited by a previous poster that described the trends in Portugal seen 14 years after they decriminalized drugs.
Group 2 - Recreational users. This group is comprised of your users who still manage to hold down jobs, do well at school, and generally are fairly upstanding members of society. Again, operating under the assumption that drugs are readily available now, recreational users have chosen to use and have determined how much of their preferred substance they can take without it negatively impacting their lives. Members of this group are the exact same as the guy who works hard at his job and supports his family, and then will have a drink or two after work some nights and maybe go to the bar on weekends. Making drugs legal will not directly make these people use more...they already use from the readily available supply of drugs out there now, and they already know their limits.
Group 3 - Addicts. These people are already overusing their substance. Making drugs legal doesn't put them in a worse position...they are already a mess. They're not going to become more of a mess because they are already abusing these substances. And in fact, because legalization may result in treatment options becoming more readily available and less stigmatized, they may actually be in a better position than if drugs were illegal.
In comparison to a lot of places. We have a very active Craft Brewers board, the governor is involved in the board and has passed legislation in favor of it as one of his first acts. ......... It's not Colorado or Austin Texas but it's pretty big. The world exists outside of yours don't forget that. The Denver area is a Mecca of micro brewing especially around Ft Collins
I have visited all those places.
I've also visited and/or lived in many actual beer cities like San Diego, San Francisco, Portland, Seattle, Bellingham ect ect.
And I've been to Phoenix. Definitely would NOT call it a craft brewery destination like you alluded to. I'll give it to you that Mexican food is big there. But I guess everything is relative nowadays. Your comment reminded me of when you hear someone says their generic city is a emerging new foodie city. Descriptors like foodie city and beer city used to mean something in this world.
Last edited by coolbeans2000; 09-24-2015 at 07:31 PM..
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moderation is the key. 
