How is gender identity liberal if it favors group identity over individual identity? (stereotypes, vs)

[hakkarin]

If you think about it gender identity is actually anti-individualist and thus not liberal. Instead of just focusing on individuals and what they like, the concept of gender identity favors a from of group identity (man vs women) instead. Example:

From an individualist perspective:

"Bob likes wearing pink cloth and he likes to collect dolls. That is because Bob is an individual and this is what he likes doing".

From the transgender/gender identity perspective:

"Bob likes wearing pink cloth and he likes to collect dolls. That is because he is actually a women in a man's body and that is what women like to do".

Progressives are trying to sell us this meme of gender identity by telling us that it makes the individual more free to be what he wants, but how is this true if gender identity favors a group identity over individual identity? Doesn't that make gender identity anti-individualist since it tells people that women=liking certain things and man=liking other things?

Originally Posted by hakkarin

Doesn't that make gender identity anti-individualist since it tells people that women=liking certain things and man=liking other things?

That's uh, not what it tells people at all.

You've fundamentally misunderstood the entire concept of gender identity.

[jamies]

I think there's a lot of people here with an unusual focus or obsession on gay and transgender people. Kind of makes you wonder if maybe there is something they are trying to tell us. It's 2015, it's ok to come out now.

[TheDusty]

Originally Posted by hakkarin

If you think about it gender identity is actually anti-individualist and thus not liberal. Instead of just focusing on individuals and what they like, the concept of gender identity favors a from of group identity (man vs women) instead. Example:

From an individualist perspective:

"Bob likes wearing pink cloth and he likes to collect dolls. That is because Bob is an individual and this is what he likes doing".

From the transgender/gender identity perspective:

"Bob likes wearing pink cloth and he likes to collect dolls. That is because he is actually a women in a man's body and that is what women like to do".

Progressives are trying to sell us this meme of gender identity by telling us that it makes the individual more free to be what he wants, but how is this true if gender identity favors a group identity over individual identity? Doesn't that make gender identity anti-individualist since it tells people that women=liking certain things and man=liking other things?

That's not really want gender identity is about.

It's widely accepted that a man, we'll use your Bob example, can collect dolls and wear pink. Not every man who does this is a trans-gendered woman. In fact, most men who do this aren't. Lots of men collect dolls. Actions figures are dolls, by definition. Regardless, liking feminine things isn't what makes a woman any more than liking masculine things makes you a man.

[joeymags]

As a conservative (young, 32yr old) I appreciate at least some low level observance of a normal society. I don't think anything is more normal or fundamental than a girl that was born a girl remaining that way, and vice versa.
It seems as if liberals, frankly, just want to be as weird as possible. People have the freedom to do whatever they want, but I'll never look at someone who was born a male, snips his **** off and sews some breasts on and calls himself kaitlyn as anything other than mentally ill.

[hakkarin]

Originally Posted by JasonF

That's uh, not what it tells people at all.

You've fundamentally misunderstood the entire concept of gender identity.

Originally Posted by TheDusty

That's not really want gender identity is about.

It's widely accepted that a man, we'll use your Bob example, can collect dolls and wear pink. Not every man who does this is a trans-gendered woman. In fact, most men who do this aren't. Lots of men collect dolls. Actions figures are dolls, by definition. Regardless, liking feminine things isn't what makes a woman any more than liking masculine things makes you a man.

Then what is "being a man" or "being a women" about? What makes somebody a man or a women?

Originally Posted by jamies

I think there's a lot of people here with an unusual focus or obsession on gay and transgender people.

I did not start to care until after they jumped on the victimization bandwagon and started demanding special protection and rights.

[dsjj251]

Originally Posted by hakkarin

Then what is "being a man" or "being a women" about? What makes somebody a man or a women?



I did not start to care until after they jumped on the victimization bandwagon and started demanding special protection and rights.

Hakkarin, While you dont like Liberals/Progressives, it is shallow to try to claim that what you describe as group identity is in anyway a condition of liberalism seeing as it is those on the conservative end of the spectrum who believe in keeping it in place as it has always been.

further more, the use of the term victimization as a negative is highly over used. There are people killed for being gay or transgender or for simply not fitting the stereotype of what a man women should be. To argue that they are simply "playing" the victim is silly.

Originally Posted by joeymags

As a conservative (young, 32yr old) I appreciate at least some low level observance of a normal society. I don't think anything is more normal or fundamental than a girl that was born a girl remaining that way, and vice versa.
It seems as if liberals, frankly, just want to be as weird as possible. People have the freedom to do whatever they want, but I'll never look at someone who was born a male, snips his **** off and sews some breasts on and calls himself kaitlyn as anything other than mentally ill.

Spoken like someone who doesn't understand that gender is a biologically complex thing. It's not just whether one has a penis or a vagina.

You're weirdly focusing only on physical characteristics of gender, just like the OP weirdly thinks that gender is somehow about color preferences and doll collecting.

[gumisgood]

Democracy, liberalism, isnt necessarily anti individual however it is pro group. It is the first flaw in reasoning in the op. The second being that the individual isnt free to choose to be a part of the group.

[Supachai]

Why does a man like Bruce Jenner, who identifies as a woman, need to put on a dress, get a boob job and grow his/her hair long to adopt a precoceptualized view of what a woman is supposed to look like? Why did Bruce even change his name to Caitlyn? Why did he need to change anything about himself? Bruce Jenner is just perpetuating stereotypes and I'm surprised that liberals haven't called him out on it.