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Just for a moment, forget about the "Congress shall pass no law regarding the establishment of religion" argument.
Seems to me one of the questions on the application for an entry Visa is "Do you now, or have you ever, belonged to an organization dedicated to the forcible overthrow of the United States Government?"
If the applicant answers "Yes", entry may be denied. Even if the organization was a religion, entry may be denied.
If the applicant answers "No", and it is proven to be a falsehood, then entry may be denied, due to commission of a felony (making a false sworn statement to authorities).
Now, back to the "establishment of religion" argument. Please show us where Congress passing a law restricting the immigration of Muslims is "establishing a religion".
What religion has been "established"?
Pastafarianism?
Frisbeetarianism?
Atheism?
Hindi?
Buddhism?
Falun Gong?
I think you're wrong. I think that banning a religion from entering the USA does damage those already in. And it certainly sends a message to Americans, that discriminating against Muslims is okay.
See, I don't believe that. You do. You think it's okay to discriminate against Muslims. And therefore you think it's okay to discriminate against someone based on their religion. That mindset is anathema to me. Because I believe in the principles this country was founded upon. For some people, those principles seem to have become inconvenient.
and i think you are wrong. i believe in the protections the constitution affords, and i dont believe in discriminating against people based solely on their religion. but again those protections only extend to those already here. and when a group like ISIS, and other islamofacists groups, have the intent of coming here to create havoc among the population, then it behooves us to prevent those very people from entering the country. and since they are religion based, the prudent thing to do is prevent those that are part of that religion from entering the country. see you think that everyone should have the protections of the US constitution regardless of where they are, i dont. i dont believe in open borders.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redraven
Just for a moment, forget about the "Congress shall pass no law regarding the establishment of religion" argument.
Seems to me one of the questions on the application for an entry Visa is "Do you now, or have you ever, belonged to an organization dedicated to the forcible overthrow of the United States Government?"
If the applicant answers "Yes", entry may be denied. Even if the organization was a religion, entry may be denied.
If the applicant answers "No", and it is proven to be a falsehood, then entry may be denied, due to commission of a felony (making a false sworn statement to authorities).
Now, back to the "establishment of religion" argument. Please show us where Congress passing a law restricting the immigration of Muslims is "establishing a religion".
What religion has been "established"?
Pastafarianism?
Frisbeetarianism?
Atheism?
Hindi?
Buddhism?
Falun Gong?
his argument is actually that t prevents the establishment and free exercise of a religion, but what he doesnt realize is that he is wrong. the muslim religion is already established here, and muslims across america freely exercise their religion. but he also doesnt see that preventing those outside the US from entering is not preventing the religion from being exercised here by those already here.
one more thing, lets say that we continue to let muslims from other countries into the US, because we dont want to be seen as discriminating against muslims, and these new entrants start doing the things that the san bernadino shooters did, and the start killing americans. how much push back and discrimination do you think will result against muslims when that happens? the people of europe are not pushing back because most of them are not armed, however if you think that americans wont push back, you are sadly mistaken.
American citizens are protected from their government passing laws that discriminate against religion.
...as practiced by U.S. citizens.
Foreigners have nothing to do that.
Our Constitution applies to this country, not the whole world.
And you know what?
The whole world outside America agrees with me, because they have their OWN laws, principles and ways of doing things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge
That's not what the Constitution says: "Congress shall make no law . . . restricting the free exercise [of religion]."
...yes, the free exercise of religion by U.S. citizens in the United States.
That doesn't apply to non-citizens outside the United States.
Quote:
"Congress shall make no law . . . restricting the free exercise [of religion]." No limitation to US citizens. A strict limitation on Congress' power. Congress exercises power by creating immigration law. That power is restricted by the 1st Amendment.
Our Constitution rules U.S. citizens in the United States.
It does not apply to foreigners outside this country, any more than other countries' constitutions and laws apply to us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge
Think of the Constitution as a mighty fortress that stands between the people and the government.
...yes, it's a mighty fortress that stands between U.S. citizens in the U.S. government -- not foreigners and the U.S. government.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge
I think you're wrong. I think that banning a religion from entering the USA does damage those already in. And it certainly sends a message to Americans, that discriminating against Muslims is okay. See, I don't believe that. You do. You think it's okay to discriminate against Muslims. And therefore you think it's okay to discriminate against someone based on their religion. That mindset is anathema to me. Because I believe in the principles this country was founded upon. For some people, those principles seem to have become inconvenient.
You act as though Islam is a religion like any other religion.
It is not. It calls for converting, enslaving, oppressing or killing of non-Muslims. Why you defend this hideous murder, enslavement and oppression cult called "Islam" (which means "Submission") -- which has zero respect for human rights, individual freedom, and democracy -- is beyond me.
Even within a week of 14 innocent Americans being murdered by two Muslims in the name of Islam, we still have people here defending letting more Muslims into this country.
The Muslims need to go, and so do the people who defend them. Islam is at war with us -- and so we are at war with Islam, whether we like it or not. Side with the enemy, and you are a traitor. Which means you forfeit both your constitutional rights and your U.S. citizenship as far as I am concerned.
Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
8,297 posts, read 14,172,511 times
Reputation: 8105
Quote:
Originally Posted by miami_winter_breeze
1)Restrictions on firearm ownership, on the sale of firearms, and on the purchase of firearms
2)Immigration and tourist visa restrictions based on religion or any other criteria (such as country of origin).
Do gun ownership restrictions pertain to allowing prison inmates to buy guns there? Does it apply to mental patients and little kids with attention deficit disorder who are prone to throwing violent tantrums?
Not many of our Constitutional rights are unlimited and absolute, not even freedom of speech (the old classic example being "is it protected speech to yell "FIRE!" in a crowded theater?). So some common-sense limitations are ok constitutionally.
I don't know if immigration restriction based on religion are unconstitutional, though they're definitely against federal law. However restriction of immigrants from any particular country are perfectly legal - President Carter for one example cut off Iran completely during the hostage crisis thing.
That actually makes more sense than restrictions by religion, since it's much easier to fake one's religion than to fake one's nation of origin.
Is this your way of making what Trump said less cringe worthy?
The entire world is talking about how insane his idea is... and where are the Conservatives who always complaining about Obama embarrassing you guys?
This is a million times worse.
This isn't directed solely at you, but for all of the Trump bashers here that are apparently incapable of forming an original thought for themselves.
I would first cite a quote from George Orwell"s 1984 which applies so perfectly in this instance, that it's troubling ...... "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act".
When Trump makes any statement these days, no matter how truthful or accurate, albeit extremely " politically incorrect", the establishment flunkies on both sides, the talking heads on both sides, and the portion of the public which parrots what they hear from them, all gasp in unison like a well rehearsed chior. It's altogether sad, and the primary reason why NOTHING ever changes for the better. Much of the American public have become so conditioned and used to being lied too about virtually everything, when someone comes along and speaks the unvarnished truth about anything, they are immediately given some derogatory label. How dare you say that!!! Please lie to us instead, like all the rest of the people in politics and media ... Don't tell us the truth, because we don't want it!!! That's what you bashers are really saying, even if you are completely unaware of it.
On the surface, and in consideration of how thoroughly brainwashed much of the public is, a simple and common sense statement like "Muslim immigration should be halted" is twisted by the media and the supposed intellectuals as some reincarnation of Adolf Hitler and the holocost. The reality is, there are direct and ongoing threats coming from radical Muslim extremists groups who are not demanding any political solutions to any specific greviences, and therefore no negotiation is possible, but instead have declared a holy war on all westerners and western nations .... with the sole goal of inflicting as much death and carnage as they can possibly inflict, with our total destruction their ultimate end game. And that reality must be dealt with as effectively as possible, leaving no room for feel good warm and fuzzy political correct lunacy.
To use an analogy, when a product manufacturer detects a significant danger in products already in distribution, they halt further distribution, and begin a recall of the product already distributed and on the shelves. Such an action does not mean that every item on that recall is tainted or dangerous but only that it is impossible to know which ones might be, and therefore, if the dangerous ones cannot be identified, all of them must be assumed a risk.
This same principle is being applied relative to allowing Muslims from war torn countries and hotbed areas of Muslim extremism from entering our country, since it is impossible to separate the extremists from the non-extremists among these wannabe immigrants. Consequently, while such a war is being waged against us, we must place our security as the number one priority. To argue against such a common sense view, only identifies you as one of the brainwashed masses.
This isn't directed solely at you, but for all of the Trump bashers here that are apparently incapable of forming an original thought for themselves.
I would first cite a quote from George Orwell"s 1984 which applies so perfectly in this instance, that it's troubling ...... "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act".
When Trump makes any statement these days, no matter how truthful or accurate, albeit extremely " politically incorrect", the establishment flunkies on both sides, the talking heads on both sides, and the portion of the public which parrots what they hear from them, all gasp in unison like a well rehearsed chior. It's altogether sad, and the primary reason why NOTHING ever changes for the better. Much of the American public have become so conditioned and used to being lied too about virtually everything, when someone comes along and speaks the unvarnished truth about anything, they are immediately given some derogatory label. How dare you say that!!! Please lie to us instead, like all the rest of the people in politics and media ... Don't tell us the truth, because we don't want it!!! That's what you bashers are really saying, even if you are completely unaware of it.
On the surface, and in consideration of how thoroughly brainwashed much of the public is, a simple and common sense statement like "Muslim immigration should be halted" is twisted by the media and the supposed intellectuals as some reincarnation of Adolf Hitler and the holocost. The reality is, there are direct and ongoing threats coming from radical Muslim extremists groups who are not demanding any political solutions to any specific greviences, and therefore no negotiation is possible, but instead have declared a holy war on all westerners and western nations .... with the sole goal of inflicting as much death and carnage as they can possibly inflict, with our total destruction their ultimate end game. And that reality must be dealt with as effectively as possible, leaving no room for feel good warm and fuzzy political correct lunacy.
To use an analogy, when a product manufacturer detects a significant danger in products already in distribution, they halt further distribution, and begin a recall of the product already distributed and on the shelves. Such an action does not mean that every item on that recall is tainted or dangerous but only that it is impossible to know which ones might be, and therefore, if the dangerous ones cannot be identified, all of them must be assumed a risk.
This same principle is being applied relative to allowing Muslims from war torn countries and hotbed areas of Muslim extremism from entering our country, since it is impossible to separate the extremists from the non-extremists among these wannabe immigrants. Consequently, while such a war is being waged against us, we must place our security as the number one priority. To argue against such a common sense view, only identifies you as one of the brainwashed masses.
1)Restrictions on firearm ownership, on the sale of firearms, and on the purchase of firearms
2)Immigration and tourist visa restrictions based on religion or any other criteria (such as country of origin).
Foreign citizens do not have rights provided by the US Constitution. The nations in which they live have thier own laws (I wonder why liberals do not understand this).
The 2nd amendment is a constitutional amendment that was felt to be so important, that is is right after freedom of speech. Oddly, guns insure that 1st amendment.
...yes, the free exercise of religion by U.S. citizens in the United States.
That doesn't apply to non-citizens outside the United States.
Our Constitution rules U.S. citizens in the United States.
It does not apply to foreigners outside this country, any more than other countries' constitutions and laws apply to us.
...yes, it's a mighty fortress that stands between U.S. citizens in the U.S. government -- not foreigners and the U.S. government.
Our Constitution rules our government, including our Congress. Congress is limited by the 1st Amendment whenever it acts. Immigration law, including exclusion of foreigners, is an act of Congress. Thus, immigration law is limited by the 1st Amendment.
Other countries do not control our immigration law, so their laws and constitutions have no bearing on this issue. If you believe the Constitution, it sits above the US government in the country's legal hierarchy. Congress cannot simply set it aside.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dechatelet
You act as though Islam is a religion like any other religion.
It is not. It calls for converting, enslaving, oppressing or killing of non-Muslims. Why you defend this hideous murder, enslavement and oppression cult called "Islam" (which means "Submission") -- which has zero respect for human rights, individual freedom, and democracy -- is beyond me.
Even within a week of 14 innocent Americans being murdered by two Muslims in the name of Islam, we still have people here defending letting more Muslims into this country.
The Muslims need to go, and so do the people who defend them. Islam is at war with us -- and so we are at war with Islam, whether we like it or not. Side with the enemy, and you are a traitor. Which means you forfeit both your constitutional rights and your U.S. citizenship as far as I am concerned.
Islam is a religion like any other religion. The term "submission" in the context of Islam means "submission to God." It's not very different from the Christian doctrine of faith.
Like in Christianity, killing is a grave sin in Islam.
Like Christianity, Islam contains a wide array of beliefs and practices.
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