Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 12-15-2015, 10:54 AM
 
1,535 posts, read 1,392,194 times
Reputation: 2099

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
How so?

FBI was able to figure it out because they had at least one of Malik's phones.
There are probably programs that allow you to input a person's name and possible alisases, friends, other links etc. The program simultaneosly runs that name and other inputted data through Face Book, My Space, and the myrid of other sites.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elan View Post
They don't have to search anyone's home, there are programs that can scan social media. Even when using an alias troublesome stuff can be traced back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvoc View Post
No. Not if the user is knowledgeable. And to penetrate even simple aliases means you are using significant resources.
The crux of the issue is "focused resources". My bet is that even the most knowledgable users can be traced back if the effort is deemed to be a national priority and sufficient resources are assigned to the tracing effort.

The national priority cases aside, there are the thousands of ordinary applicants who are simply being screened for potential problems. As Ivoc mentioned, even low level precautions taken by these people greatly complicates casual, or even moderately focused screening efforts.

In short, there is probably a huge efficiency difference between "We have identified a national priority level need to trace this person" and "We are screening this person along with 10,000 others for possible problems".

Last edited by Cryptic; 12-15-2015 at 11:06 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-15-2015, 12:03 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,495,743 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
There are probably programs that allow you to input a person's name and possible alisases, friends, other links etc. The program simultaneosly runs that name and other inputted data through Face Book, My Space, and the myrid of other sites.





The crux of the issue is "focused resources". My bet is that even the most knowledgable users can be traced back if the effort is deemed to be a national priority and sufficient resources are assigned to the tracing effort.

The national priority cases aside, there are the thousands of ordinary applicants who are simply being screened for potential problems. As Ivoc mentioned, even low level precautions taken by these people greatly complicates casual, or even moderately focused screening efforts.

In short, there is probably a huge efficiency difference between "We have identified a national priority level need to trace this person" and "We are screening this person along with 10,000 others for possible problems".
The NSA can do all that and more. The phones have GPS as well.
Snowden uncovered all those spying programs the NSA does.
And they keep all that data in Utah and are building a second huge data center in MD.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-15-2015, 12:26 PM
 
12,973 posts, read 15,805,587 times
Reputation: 5478
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
The NSA can do all that and more. The phones have GPS as well.
Snowden uncovered all those spying programs the NSA does.
And they keep all that data in Utah and are building a second huge data center in MD.
Not really. NSA had an ability to track a gigantic amount of stuff and can extract from it much information about the connections between people. But there is still no good way to break a one use cipher and others can withstand a significant assault. There are relatively simple means to make a persona that is not track able back to you. And the effort needed to track any large part of social media across language and cultures would probably require the expansion of NSA by an order of magnitude or even more.

Practically NSA would need trap door access to virtually everything. But it is also practically impossible to keep such mechanisms secret over a long period...so if NSA can get in so will the Chechen hackers in a year or so.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-15-2015, 12:44 PM
 
19,573 posts, read 8,522,211 times
Reputation: 10096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowball7 View Post
I am still 100% convinced all this supposed evidence was planted after the fact
and that the Farooks are patsies who didn't do anything.
Conspiracy theories, eh?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-15-2015, 02:12 PM
 
13,303 posts, read 7,872,015 times
Reputation: 2144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowball7 View Post
I am still 100% convinced all this supposed evidence was planted after the fact
and that the Farooks are patsies who didn't do anything.
That's only what it LOOKS LIKE!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-15-2015, 02:23 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,495,743 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvoc View Post
Not really. NSA had an ability to track a gigantic amount of stuff and can extract from it much information about the connections between people. But there is still no good way to break a one use cipher and others can withstand a significant assault. There are relatively simple means to make a persona that is not track able back to you. And the effort needed to track any large part of social media across language and cultures would probably require the expansion of NSA by an order of magnitude or even more.

Practically NSA would need trap door access to virtually everything. But it is also practically impossible to keep such mechanisms secret over a long period...so if NSA can get in so will the Chechen hackers in a year or so.
She didn't use any ciphers. The FBI found her alias after the fact.

FB shuts down pages for racist remarks in the blink of an eyelash so you betcha they have scanners.
And FB has access to all the data..both public and private.

The NSA is directly hooked into the backbone; they have direct access to anything traveling the fiber.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-15-2015, 02:52 PM
 
1,535 posts, read 1,392,194 times
Reputation: 2099
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvoc View Post
Not really. NSA had an ability to track a gigantic amount of stuff and can extract from it much information about the connections between people. But there is still no good way to break a one use cipher and others can withstand a significant assault.
This source here explains how one time use ciphers work and boasts that they are unbreakable via brute force attempts. They are probably right.

http://www.mils.com/uploads/media/TEC-OTP-04e-h.pdf


But.... brute force attempts use short cuts. For example, the effort against the German enigma code used a two prong approach where brute force was combined with lingustical and logic analysis (structure of the German language, almost all communication on earth complies with 23 or so rules of Aristotlian logic). The lingustics and logic analysis were then used to create algorithims for "short cuts".

Also, the source above emphasizes that the cipher is based on a completely random phenomena. Though the phenomena is completely random, it has also been described by humans. This description seems to involves assigning the phenomena a state of (+) or (-). Whether my impression is accurate or not for this particular phenomena aside, even truly random phenomena might not be "truly random" after humans describe it. Our descriptions of the phenomena must follow certain logical precepts for us to be able to understand it.

In short...unbreakable by brute force might not mean unbreakable.

Last edited by Cryptic; 12-15-2015 at 03:11 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-15-2015, 06:39 PM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,748,172 times
Reputation: 20674
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvoc View Post
Not really. NSA had an ability to track a gigantic amount of stuff and can extract from it much information about the connections between people. But there is still no good way to break a one use cipher and others can withstand a significant assault. There are relatively simple means to make a persona that is not track able back to you. And the effort needed to track any large part of social media across language and cultures would probably require the expansion of NSA by an order of magnitude or even more.

Practically NSA would need trap door access to virtually everything. But it is also practically impossible to keep such mechanisms secret over a long period...so if NSA can get in so will the Chechen hackers in a year or so.
The Chechen hackers would likely be sub contracted to build and maintain the trap door.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-15-2015, 06:42 PM
 
12,973 posts, read 15,805,587 times
Reputation: 5478
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
The Chechen hackers would likely be sub contracted to build and maintain the trap door.
And the ones from Hackistan would sell the keys to the backdoor to the rest of the world.

That is why you can either protect privacy or do without. The guardians of privacy will sell you out every time if it is possible.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-15-2015, 10:52 PM
 
10,553 posts, read 9,651,677 times
Reputation: 4784
The NSA can monitor all the social media it wants, but congress has shown it won't even prevent individuals who are on the terrorist watch list from exercising their "right" to purchase assault rifles. That makes NO Sense at all. Why even bother identifying anyone as a threat if you are not willing to take any actions to prevent them from causing another San Bernardino?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:33 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top