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Old 12-22-2015, 06:58 PM
 
Location: Tip of the Sphere. Just the tip.
4,540 posts, read 2,769,559 times
Reputation: 5277

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharks With Lasers View Post
Appalachia is not deep red. They may be voting that way in certain situations right now, but at their heart, they aren't deep red. It's a surprisingly moderate region in many ways.
That may be true of Pennsylvania and West Virginia. It's absolutely NOT true anywhere South of West Virginia.
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Old 12-22-2015, 07:23 PM
 
4,983 posts, read 3,291,808 times
Reputation: 2739
Quote:
Originally Posted by turkey-head View Post
Yep. Coal causes all manner of pollution and thousands of unnecessary deaths per year. Are we supposed to ignore that because some ignorant hillbillies will be out of a job?

Natural gas is cheaper and cleaner. Unless we really WANT our children breathing soot and mercury... there's really no reason to burn coal.


Well except that these hateful rednecks want us to subsidize their sorry lifestyle. My advice is to move away and get a real job. Like I did.
Nice. Sound like a regular mean spirited republican.
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Old 12-22-2015, 07:50 PM
 
Location: Long Island
57,297 posts, read 26,217,746 times
Reputation: 15646
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goinback2011 View Post
Obama simultaneously forces electricity prices higher and wants the middle class to subsidize the leeches' energy use.

He's the scum of the earth.
How much did you pay for electricity in 2008 vs now, I don't expect I will get an answer but thought I would ask.
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Old 12-22-2015, 08:11 PM
 
10,553 posts, read 9,651,677 times
Reputation: 4784
Quote:
Originally Posted by freightshaker View Post
Please tell me how the gas and oil business is subsidized other than being able to write off expenses like any other company. I would like to see it. The no brainer is that we don't have the infrastructure now, and it will take 20 years to make the switch, if then. Solar and wind is not financially competitive without actual subsides and we aren't talking about tax deductions here. We are talking about literally handing out money to a business in order to make them successful. We have been doing this with the Amtrak for years and they still require REAL subsides in order to survive. Until such time as wind, solar and other forms of energy can stand on their own, they will not survive.
I think it has a lot to do with economies of scale. If every home had solar panels, or even if all new construction in certain regions of the country were required to install solar panels, at some point that industry would be flourishing.

Oil and gas subsidies exceed the tax subsidies to renewable energy sources by a wide margin.

"A 2009 study by the Environmental Law Institute[29] assessed the size and structure of U.S. energy subsidies in 2002–08. The study estimated that subsidies to fossil fuel-based sources totaled about $72 billion over this period and subsidies to renewable fuel sources totaled $29 billion."

Also, it is not just tax subsidies. The oil, gas and coal industry receives other singularly favorable benefits from the U.S. government in terms of regulatory control.

A major part of how the oil and gas industry is subsidized is that they are not paying for the damage they are doing to the environment. That's a subsidy that you can't even put a dollar amount on, it is so immense.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy...#United_States

Last edited by ellemint; 12-22-2015 at 08:23 PM..
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Old 12-22-2015, 08:16 PM
 
10,553 posts, read 9,651,677 times
Reputation: 4784
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
Yes - oil and gas companies get subsidies.

From Heritage...
Oil Subsidies That Should Be Removed

First, let’s take a look at oil subsidies that are obvious and unnecessary. Congress should eliminate the following subsidies:

Government R&D. The Department of Energy (DOE) has spent taxpayer dollars on oil research and development, including funding for unconventional oil, gas, and coal. Although President Obama’s FY 2012 budget request significantly cuts funding for the Office of Fossil Energy, decreasing its size by $417.8 million below the FY 2010 appropriation, it does not go far enough. The only funding in this area should maintain the Strategic Petroleum Reserve, for which the President’s budget requests an appropriate $121.7 million. Eliminating all other fossil energy funding would save $399 million.

Enhanced Oil Recovery (EOR) Tax Credit. Oil producers receive a 15 percent tax credit for costlier methods and technologies, such as injecting liquids and carbon dioxide into the earth. Many EOR processes are no longer in use, and the tax credit applies only when the price of oil falls below a certain level.

Marginal Well Production Credit. Marginal wells produce 15 or fewer barrels of oil per day, produce heavy oil, or produce mostly water and fewer than 25 barrels of oil per day. The marginal well production credit is another safety-net tax provision. This is another preferential tax credit that Congress should repeal.


Applied research of any kind—not just oil research and development—is better left to the private sector. The private sector should not be subsidized because of market conditions, as happens with the so-called safety-net tax credits that kick in if the price of oil falls below a certain level.
Applied research can never be left solely to the companies that have a vested interest in the status quo!

Most true scientific breakthroughs are going to come from research that is heavily government subsidized , for example through NSF, often from the most esoteric pure scientific research.
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Old 12-22-2015, 11:36 PM
 
Location: ATX-HOU
10,216 posts, read 8,119,861 times
Reputation: 2037
Quote:
Originally Posted by uggabugga View Post
You already forgot writing posts 17 and 23?
good grief
YAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWN. It was a joke yo. You'll notice no one of your side actually responded to my links or points since I knew none of your ilk had a worthwhile response.

Coal is only cheap when you don't put a cost on pollution. I don't think anyone is mourning the whale oil industry demising from my boy Rockefeller.
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Old 12-23-2015, 12:13 AM
 
27,307 posts, read 16,226,860 times
Reputation: 12102
Quote:
Originally Posted by dv1033 View Post
Here's what heavy dependance on coal use and lax environmental regulations costed China in 2008 based on research:

China's Environmental Crisis
:


So in 2008 China's GDP was ~4.5 trillion USD.... So it cost them 360 billion USD in lost productivity in 2008.
Suffering from Alzheimer's?
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Old 12-23-2015, 12:15 AM
 
Location: ATX-HOU
10,216 posts, read 8,119,861 times
Reputation: 2037
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-310 View Post
Suffering from Alzheimer's?
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHH now you care about China...... How convenient.... I was hoping anyone would actually respond to my post showing how expensive pollution can cost....

Care to reply or just slink away like a good republican....

Or just hit "copy and paste"..... "The earth warms and cools periodically".

TROLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.
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Old 12-23-2015, 12:19 AM
 
27,307 posts, read 16,226,860 times
Reputation: 12102
Quote:
Originally Posted by dv1033 View Post
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHH now you care about China...... How convenient.... I was hoping anyone would actually respond to my post showing how expensive pollution can cost....

Care to reply or just slink away like a good republican....

Or just hit "copy and paste"..... "The earth warms and cools periodically".

TROLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.
Rambling lunacy.

And no I don't care what happens in china. I don't care what happens in India.

In short, I don't care about anything other than terrorists should be killed and how unchecked liberalism affects my bottom line. You promote issues that would make my standard of living more expensive and I am and always will be against that.
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Old 12-23-2015, 12:40 AM
 
Location: ATX-HOU
10,216 posts, read 8,119,861 times
Reputation: 2037
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-310 View Post
Rambling lunacy.
Trollololols gonna trollolololols.

Quote:
And no I don't care what happens in china. I don't care what happens in India.
Of course you don't.... China is buying up half the world's resources and you're twiddling your thumbs.... But you'll care when it's too late.

Quote:
In short, I don't care about anything other than terrorists should be killed and how unchecked liberalism affects my bottom line. You promote issues that would make my standard of living more expensive and I am and always will be against that.
At least my vote checks your crazy tea baggin ways.

And your standard of living is a farce and subsidized heavily which only demonstrates your ignorance. You probably didn't realize you support big government with your bottom line.
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