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Old 01-02-2016, 07:04 AM
 
Location: annandale, va & slidell, la
9,267 posts, read 5,116,118 times
Reputation: 8471

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Quote:
Originally Posted by windowtreatments View Post
For me it indicates that the American dream is basically dead or am I wrong. Also who do you blame government polices, the irresponsiblity of the American people or both.


Most Americans have less than $1,000 in savings - MarketWatch
These people all made bad choices early on. Beginning in their teens with their education, job skills and finally the clincher; having kids when they couldn't afford them.

The great "people-mover" of life doesn't favor anyone, and it's the same length for everyone.
You have only a few chances to get it right by the time you're 40. Soon after, the job market and mother nature works against us all.

The real problem is that we now have a generation of people who are convinced that if they slack-off in life, society will write them a check out of compassion.
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Old 01-02-2016, 07:06 AM
 
23,961 posts, read 15,066,841 times
Reputation: 12938
Quote:
Originally Posted by windowtreatments View Post
i'm not totally disagreeing with you. However, personally I've see many times immigrants coming to this country with no money, no education, no nothing..And yet in a fews years they're living in a nice home, driving a nice car, etc..They may not be millionaires but there doing ok....How do you explain that?
Many pay no payroll taxes in my state. The state does not license contractors. Just plumbers, electricians and HVAC. Nobody knows who is making what amount of money.

All home builders hire subs. The subs need an I-9. They pay the help in cash. If they get a check, it is cashed at the payers bank, no paper trail.

The cleaning ladies make $125 per house, cash. Many do 2 houses a day. No taxes.
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Old 01-02-2016, 07:14 AM
 
8,313 posts, read 3,922,811 times
Reputation: 10651
Quote:
Originally Posted by windowtreatments View Post
For me it indicates that the American dream is basically dead or am I wrong. Also who do you blame government polices, the irresponsiblity of the American people or both.


Most Americans have less than $1,000 in savings - MarketWatch
If you are thinking that the American Dream was the standard of living that the middle class had from WWII through the 80's, you are absolutely correct - that dream is as dead as a doornail.

The reason why the middle class had prosperity in that long gone era was because corporations NEEDED American labor, in factories, shops and offices. They NEEDED to retain those workers and they provided them a living wage and benefits.

Automation in manufacturing took away at least 50% or more of the blue collar factory jobs, and probably an even larger percentage of white collar jobs. Who has a secretary anymore? Why have 20 engineers to design a product with slide rules when 1 can do the same thing with well crafted software and cheap computing resource?

Today we have global corporations that have the ability to find the cheapest place to build their factories anywhere on the planet - and they will staff them with the cheapest labor. These corporations have absolutely no reason to share their wealth as they did during the American Golden Age. Why would they?

The Leave it to Beaver / Brady Bunch American Dream was never sustainable. The Greatest Generation that survived the Depression and fought and won WWII understood that, but they are largely dead and gone. The reality is that once the remaining wealth of the Baby Boomers is suctioned out of their 401Ks and IRAs, USA is going to see a BIG slide down in the standard of living. Inevitable.
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Old 01-02-2016, 07:17 AM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,853 posts, read 17,353,176 times
Reputation: 14459
Quote:
Originally Posted by crone View Post
The cleaning ladies make $125 per house, cash. Many do 2 houses a day. No taxes.
Only on C-D do "cleaning ladies" take home $65K per year.
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Old 01-02-2016, 07:21 AM
 
15 posts, read 36,711 times
Reputation: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by rizzo0904 View Post
But I bet they have the newest iPhone and drive a nice car.

I don't get it? Why is that a concern for you? I don't mean to get off topic but we give welfare to corporations who own private jets and pay themselves millions. Last I checked a lot of people on food stamps for example are people who have paid taxes and paid into that system and most are working. How is this robbing the system or other theories which is a common theme for some? I never understood this logic. Last I checked most of the programs are income based. I'm not saying some people don't abuse the system, they do. But the problem with our country isn't a moral one as much as a thinking error. Too much double speak in somes people's speech. On one hand we want people off welfare but then justify and rationalize low wage pay. Our society makes even community college expensive. Last I checked my community college was 20k+ just for a two year degree. Sorry for rant.
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Old 01-02-2016, 07:25 AM
 
52,433 posts, read 26,608,703 times
Reputation: 21097
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
By contrast we have a billionaire running for President. This guy has bankrupted several times yet managed to keep his personal fortune while stiffing his investors. That is because the system protects him while robbing the rest of us. When a working class person gores bankrupt they loose everything to their creditors. Why not The Donald?
Correction, we have 2 billionaires running for President. They Clintons have become billionaires since leaving the WH, where they claimed to be broke, without creating any jobs or producing any products that society needs. Of course there was Whitewater where actual laws were broken and people went to jail, but not the Clintons. A working class person would have been put in jail. So why not the Clintons?

Trump made his money by running real business, providing and providing 10s of 1000s of real jobs. Yet you fault him, while ignoring even worse with the Clintons. By your own standards, you have to wonder why we have a system where the politically connected can get so rich, without providing anything to society. That is what you should be concerned about.
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Old 01-02-2016, 07:25 AM
 
Location: New London County, CT
8,949 posts, read 12,132,512 times
Reputation: 5145
Quote:
Originally Posted by finalmove View Post
These people all made bad choices early on. Beginning in their teens with their education, job skills and finally the clincher; having kids when they couldn't afford them.

The great "people-mover" of life doesn't favor anyone, and it's the same length for everyone.
You have only a few chances to get it right by the time you're 40. Soon after, the job market and mother nature works against us all.

The real problem is that we now have a generation of people who are convinced that if they slack-off in life, society will write them a check out of compassion.
That's strange... I find that the great "people-mover of life" (I like that!) favors some over others. I went to one of the top public high schools in the US. That was followed by a top public university with a top 10 computer science program. My dad was an executive at a venture capital firm and paid for my college education by check. When I came out of college I leveraged my dad's connections for a job at a Fortune 500 company. Even today, I leverage the network I have built through the town I grew up to build my current businesses as an entrepreneur.

I work hard. So does the minimum wage worker, working two jobs.

I live in a beautiful 4 bedroom contemporary home on 3 acres in Connecticut with my partner. I know of families who have 3 kids and a two bedroom apartment. We have two cars and a boat. Others have to travel by public bus....

I have to say that I had some good favor and it certainly was easier for me to achieve success than a kid who grew up in poverty, surround by crime in Bridgeport, CT.

It's not as simple as making bad choices. You have to acknowledge that.

On the other hand, despite the situation you are born in to, in the end you ARE responsible for your choices-- but the path is by no means equal.
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Old 01-02-2016, 07:33 AM
 
52,433 posts, read 26,608,703 times
Reputation: 21097
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlassoff View Post


On the other hand, despite the situation you are born in to, in the end you ARE responsible for your choices-- but the path is by no means equal.
But it still comes down to choices that one makes in life. There are lots of kids born into well off families that never amount to anything. That "affluenza" kid in jail in Mexico is an example.

On the other hand I knew a refugee guy that escaped from an oppressive government He ended up in the USA with no money and didn't know English. Despite that he put himself through college, became a mechanical engineer at a US firm and is now doing quite well for himself.

It all comes down to choices.
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Old 01-02-2016, 07:37 AM
 
15 posts, read 36,711 times
Reputation: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by finalmove View Post
These people all made bad choices early on. Beginning in their teens with their education, job skills and finally the clincher; having kids when they couldn't afford them.

The great "people-mover" of life doesn't favor anyone, and it's the same length for everyone.
You have only a few chances to get it right by the time you're 40. Soon after, the job market and mother nature works against us all.

The real problem is that we now have a generation of people who are convinced that if they slack-off in life, society will write them a check out of compassion.
Huh? So the major wealth and income separation in our country is because of bad choices? So 80% of our country who owns like 20% of the resources in our country are there because they are lazy etc etc? Ok again I'm sorry if I'm going off topic. I can never understand this logic. It's like saying only the white race has the virtues of hard work and good morals because they own most of the worlds wealth. This is a logic error.
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Old 01-02-2016, 07:41 AM
 
Location: New England
1,239 posts, read 2,008,006 times
Reputation: 931
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???

I don't know anyone who is on welfare and has an iPhone and a nice car.

Not everyone on welfare has a baby mama mama and a baby daddy flush with cash.
This isn't about welfare. It's about people who don't save and have no emergency fund. They'd rather fulfill their immediate desires than stash money away for a rainy day.
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