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First off, this study shows that there is a greater propensity to pull the trigger when the suspect is black, however, my problem is that this study means NOTHING TO YOU and neither does all the other STUDIES that show discrimination and bias directed at BLACK PEOPLE!!!
Part of the problem is you aren't listening. You don't know me, yet you just assumed and made false attributions about my beliefs.
I know of that and other studies AND I TEACH THAT STUDY in my classroom.
I am sure discrimination makes an impact in some situations, but is it a major impact when the statistics do not show any significant disproportionate shootings of blacks by cops. This is my original argument.
Does it help the situation to not be honest about the situation, spread lies like in the Michael Brown case and not discuss statistics realistically.
Are cops not more on edge in certain cities and that has led to less police stops and more blacks murdered by street gangs in those locations?
Also, I can show studies where cops give blacks more leniency.
Blacks also show more discrimination against blacks in those studies.
Newer studies show the trend is reversing.
That is why I am worried that the poor understanding of statistics will create more riots, which will create more problems with police law enforcement, which hurts black communities and us all.
So....you probably could take these same statistics, in 1960 and argue the same point you are arguing now. The 60's was an era that is now recognized as rampant with white racism, just as the decades before it. Thus, does it stand to reason that in 1960 that racism played little role in police killings of blacks?
My point is that statistically what you are saying has always been true. My question to you, then, is has race EVER played a role?
"I am sure discrimination makes an impact in some situations, but is it a major impact when the statistics do not show any significant disproportionate shootings of blacks by cops. This is my original argument."
The problem here is we are trying to throw a wide net for a more narrower problem. Cops killing blacks in the commission of a felony crime is not that the issue here. Cops shooting blacks in a shoot out is not the issue here. In that case a cop is simply doing his job. Blacks commit crimes at a higher rate than any other group is a fact. That is not what is at issue. The question is why do cops kill blacks at a higher rate when a felony crime has not been committed or the victim was found to be unarmed.
"I am sure discrimination makes an impact in some situations, but is it a major impact when the statistics do not show any significant disproportionate shootings of blacks by cops. This is my original argument."
The problem here is we are trying to throw a wide net for a more narrower problem. Cops killing blacks in the commission of a felony crime is not that the issue here. Cops shooting blacks in a shoot out is not the issue here. In that case a cop is simply doing his job. Blacks commit crimes at a higher rate than any other group is a fact. That is not what is at issue. The question is why do cops kill blacks at a higher rate when a felony crime has not been committed or the victim was found to be unarmed.
Michigan Moon is not listening.....so he projects that others are not listening. Here is the bottom line to me, you cannot have racism in society, meaning you cannot have people who think that race determines behavior and outcomes, and that racism not influence decisions and actions that the racist takes. What Michigan Moon and others are attempting to do is make is seem like race plays a minimal role, only the actions of the perpetrators. Black men are seen as STRONGER and more VIOLENT, as a result of people watching sports and the news. Thus, when white cops encounter black men, the feel more threatened even if the person is unarmed.
I actually agree with this in response to the question you posed to the poster below:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant
So....you probably could take these same statistics, in 1960 and argue the same point you are arguing now. The 60's was an era that is now recognized as rampant with white racism, just as the decades before it. Thus, does it stand to reason that in 1960 that racism played little role in police killings of blacks?
My point is that statistically what you are saying has always been true. My question to you, then, is has race EVER played a role?
You cited a lot of information in your response to me and Indentured Servant asked the above, to which you responded about "listening..."
It seems to me that you aren't listening to real information and are seeking out sources that agree with your inherent biases regarding black people.
Indentured Servant posed a very interesting question and I would like your response as well to it since you quoted me. Do you, OP think that race was a factor in the way that police treated black Americans in the 1960s, treatment that was and has since been acknowledged as racist?
On that, do you believe that racist treatment has stopped in America's law enforcement community, and if you do, when did it stop?
As stated before, just based on population black people are over represented in a disproportionate way in regards to police killings. However, I also saw, OP that you did not respond to the information provided below:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grainraiser
I will try to interject some facts into this conversation. There are more whites killed by cops in this country than backs and that is a fact but you have to dig deeper for the truth. These deaths are total police killings and are mostly made up of people who were actually in the act or had committed a violent crime. The more telling number is blacks make up 40% of all police killings in which the victim was unarmed and not committing a felony crime. Black males make up 6% of the population but 40% of unarmed people shot and killed by the police are black males. It is this fact that we need to ask the question why. We do not have any stats for questionable shootings in which the victim had a weapon but was not committing a felony crime (Baton Rouge and Minnesota cases). In these cases we can only assume and offer opinions because we cannot say for certain if it happens to minorities and whites at the proper percentages. I would be willing to bet that the number are higher for minorities but that would be based on opinion not facts.
The bold is the main thing that activist focus on in regards to the topic you are proposing OP. Is it your contention that unarmed black people who are not in the act of committing felonies are not disproportionately killed by police versus whites??
Also, is it your contention that blacks who have guns, yet aren't threatening police, like the two recent black men killed, are not disproportionately killed by police??
And again, why are you ignoring that even your own number show a disproportionate rate of police killing black people. If over 25% killed by police are black and black people are 12% of the population, then black people are killed disproportionately more than whites.
"I am sure discrimination makes an impact in some situations, but is it a major impact when the statistics do not show any significant disproportionate shootings of blacks by cops. This is my original argument."
The problem here is we are trying to throw a wide net for a more narrower problem. Cops killing blacks in the commission of a felony crime is not that the issue here. Cops shooting blacks in a shoot out is not the issue here. In that case a cop is simply doing his job. Blacks commit crimes at a higher rate than any other group is a fact. That is not what is at issue. The question is why do cops kill blacks at a higher rate when a felony crime has not been committed or the victim was found to be unarmed.
You are changing the problem though.
The problem that I am addressing is, is that BLM is misusing statistics out of context.
To go into your problem the statistics are murky. For example, although tragedies do happen, most "unarmed" people of all races aren't innocently sitting still when they were shot by cops. Tyler Gebhard just broke into a cop's home after getting into an online argument - he was shot - it will be recorded as a cop (albeit off duty) shooting an unarmed black man...ignoring the circumstance. A black man tried to run over a cop with his car, the cop shot him, it is getting marked down an unarmed black man getting shot by a cop. Michael Brown was unarmed. Most police unarmed shootings are justified...some aren't.
BLM takes these statistics and uses them without any context and it pours gas on the fire.
As to your point, blacks are more likely to have interactions with cops than other races. The more you interact with cops the more possible bad interactions you might have. If I never interact with a cop this entire year, my chances of having a bad interaction is 0%. Blacks are more likely to live in high crime areas where cops are already on edge from the high crime.
There are cases of racist cops, unnerved cops making bad choices, poorly trained cops leading to tragedies.
You are right we should address those, but misusing statistics like BLM is doing makes matters worse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grainraiser
This my conclusion also. I think in the majority of these cases the cops hold a racial bias and believe that blacks are more dangerous than any other group. Hence they are much more likely to escalate a incident using a weapon.
I think this is certainly true.
But it is also true that blacks are more likely to assault a cop, resist arrest, commit murder, or commit another violent crime....which increases the odds of a violent confrontation with cops and increases the odds that the cop may consciously or sub-consciously fear blacks more.
The problem that I am addressing is, is that BLM is misusing statistics out of context.
To go into your problem the statistics are murky. For example, although tragedies do happen, most "unarmed" people of all races aren't innocently sitting still when they were shot by cops. Tyler Gebhard just broke into a cop's home after getting into an online argument - he was shot - it will be recorded as a cop (albeit off duty) shooting an unarmed black man...ignoring the circumstance. A black man tried to run over a cop with his car, the cop shot him, it is getting marked down an unarmed black man getting shot by a cop. Michael Brown was unarmed. Most police unarmed shootings are justified...some aren't.
BLM takes these statistics and uses them without any context and it pours gas on the fire.
As to your point, blacks are more likely to have interactions with cops than other races. The more you interact with cops the more possible bad interactions you might have. If I never interact with a cop this entire year, my chances of having a bad interaction is 0%. Blacks are more likely to live in high crime areas where cops are already on edge from the high crime.
There are cases of racist cops, unnerved cops making bad choices, poorly trained cops leading to tragedies.
You are right we should address those, but misusing statistics like BLM is doing makes matters worse.
I think this is certainly true.
But it is also true that blacks are more likely to assault a cop, resist arrest, commit murder, or commit another violent crime....which increases the odds of a violent confrontation with cops and increases the odds that the cop may consciously or sub-consciously fear blacks more.
It seems like you are doing the same thing in regards to this thread with the red...
"Whites are being programed by talk radio because the talk radio is telling them that blacks are making this stuff up..."
Do you really believe that ALL white people spend most of their time listening to talk radio?
Sorry, but IMO that is ridiculous and stupid!
Just like it is ridiculous and stupid to say that ALL black people are lazy Southern fried chicken eating watermelon thieves who make babies to qualify for better welfare benefits.
You find that statement offensive and insulting? GOOD! Stop and THINK before you post!
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