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So you are saying that whites kill cops more often, but cops *feel* like blacks kill cops more often, and therefore are scared when they shouldn't be.
OK.
So how do you fix that? How do you fix white people being scared of black men? If you can fix the fear, then you can fix the problem.
I believe the way to fix that fear is cultural education; however, I also believe that the general public doesn't want to do this sort of education whereas all sorts of people are humanized in a similar capacity. There are school systems that do training of teachers on this and they are lambasted by the right especially, but I do think it is necessary.
Someone else mentioned in the thread something that is true, black people usually do not have a high rate of shooting/killing police officers. Also, I stated that over 90% of black people are not criminals and aren't even arrested in any given year.
I believe that our country is permeated with the belief that black people (I am black) are criminals and uneducated and all sorts of other negative things. I believe it is not just a "white" thing either, you yourself admitted as such with the groups of men you reference. I will note that I am a female as well and I'm afraid of all groups of men lol, men are dangerous IMO, doesn't matter what kind, but oddly enough, when I see a group of black teenage boys, unlike some women, I don't get afraid. I have a lot of nephews and a teenage son and usually groups of teenage males just remind me of my family members so those biases are based in part by media but can be remedied with personal, positive experiences.
People would be surprised at how black Americans are very different versus how we are portrayed in media. I remember reading actually that black Americans are much more compassionate versus other demographics and more willing to help others. Also that we are more likely to perform a "heroic" deed versus other demographics, yet many people don't know this.
I personally state a lot of positives about black people on the forums, which are true, and many times posters have argued against what I stated and when presented with evidence will say they "don't believe it" and that is because they cannot see outside of their biases. I do believe that a majority of people today in America are willing to view another narrative, it is just that that narrative is not being provided and it especially does need to be provided to our law enforcement community.
I know that some activists want to make police officers live in the cities they serve and I do see a benefit of this as well, but usually when that occurs, the officers live in a particular neighborhood filled with other officers and I'm not one to agree to tell people what neighborhood they should be living in.
It's police who are disproportionately killed by blacks!
42% of all cop killings are done by blacks.
And that doesn't even start to add up all the police who are hospitalized or shot by blacks but not killed.
It's police who should be in fear, sadly.
When are blacks and the liberals going to address THAT?
Show this data, because it does not exist.
As I pointed out earlier with data, A cop is much more likely to be killed by a white guy than a black.
As previously mentioned. Prior to these assignations in dallas, only 4 cops were shot and killed by black guys out of 24 cops shot and killed this year. The rest were mainly from white guys with a few latinos mixed in. 2 of the blacks who killed cops were middle class drunk people who were haveing a domestic disturbance at the time. One of those worked at the pentagon.
Perhaps in the 60's cop violence on black men was due to the cop feeling that the black man was "less than human".
But today, no. Today cop violence on black men is because the cop is scared of what the black man is going to do. Is the black man going to kill me? Kill someone else? Come back later with his friends and do a drive by into my home where my child is sleeping? Inspire some guy in an unrelated city to kill a bunch of other cops with a sniper rifle?
It is FEAR. As long as the media continues to propagate the idea that black men are strong and violent, all white people, from the time they begin to watch TV, will be scared of the black man.
Do you know why cops don't shoot Asians? Because I cannot remember a single TV show or movie where an Asian guy has ever shot anybody. Karate chopped maybe. But shot, no. But blacks? Yeah. It is ingrained into our psyche from birth onward that the black man shoots people. It's on all the shows, in all the movies. Perhaps we should start there?
In Venezuela where the state has failed its people, women are committing open insurrection and crossing the border into Columbia to buy food. If black women were facing the kind of employment and other societal hurdles that black men are facing, they would be more involved in crime of all kinds, but being women they would still be less likely to turn to violence. The average woman has from 1 to 80 nanograms of testosterone per decaliter of blood, while the average man has 300 to 1100. A comparison between men and women with respect to violent crime is insulting to the intelligence of everyone participating in this thread. Be ashamed. Also, continue to ignore the clear evidence of unfounded bias in police affairs despite the logic of any statistics re: black propensity to violence. Go ahead. Ignore the evidence and continue to disproportionately target black people for revenue. It will not end well, but that is coming from some guy on the Internet. Take it for what its worth...
Wow.
So you think it is impossible for a cop to have a bias against men (ie believe males are more of a threat than females), causing them to be more on edge and be quicker to resorting to use violence against males than females?
You also think it is impossible for men to be involved in more police shootings, because of the following reasons - they commit 91% of murders, most of the violent crime, are more likely to resist arrest, more likely to assault a cop, and have more interactions with police...
How do you explain all of the cop shootings that were found not to be justifiable that is so lopsided to male victims? You just offer "testerone" to explain that!?
You think that females comprising 51% of the population, but 2% of the shootings all boils down to the male victims having testosterone? Even in the unjustified cases?
Since you place apparently all emphasis on testosterone to explain the male-female police shooting victims, do you use testosterone to explain the differences between police shootings in races to? Would you do so even in cases where the police shooting was not justified like you do with genders?
That is not what I said. When you stop a black person, you are not stopping "the black race". You are stopping an INDIVIDUAL. It a fallacy of logic to assume that what is true of parts is true for the whole (fallacy of composition) or to assume that what is true of the whole is true of all its parts (fallacy of division). If you assume that I can run faster than you, jump higher than you, box better than your, or more violent than you or less intelligent than you, etc, based upon STATISTICS concerning the whole, you will be wrong many times. However, that is what social conditioning does. It creates stereotypes and subliminal conditioning that leads people to act subliminally when split second decisions need to be made.
If you treat a black individual a certain way.....based upon statistics about the race.....you are already in the wrong. This is what happens in a lot of these police incidents with blacks. The reptilian response take over.
Yes. The reptilian response takes over. That is what I said that you said. We are in agreement.
It is not rational for the cop to fear the black man. But the cop fears the black man. Because his reptilian response takes over, and he has been programmed from birth by Hollywood to fear the black man.
I believe the way to fix that fear is cultural education; however, I also believe that the general public doesn't want to do this sort of education whereas all sorts of people are humanized in a similar capacity. There are school systems that do training of teachers on this and they are lambasted by the right especially, but I do think it is necessary.
Someone else mentioned in the thread something that is true, black people usually do not have a high rate of shooting/killing police officers. Also, I stated that over 90% of black people are not criminals and aren't even arrested in any given year.
I believe that our country is permeated with the belief that black people (I am black) are criminals and uneducated and all sorts of other negative things. I believe it is not just a "white" thing either, you yourself admitted as such with the groups of men you reference. I will note that I am a female as well and I'm afraid of all groups of men lol, men are dangerous IMO, doesn't matter what kind, but oddly enough, when I see a group of black teenage boys, unlike some women, I don't get afraid. I have a lot of nephews and a teenage son and usually groups of teenage males just remind me of my family members so those biases are based in part by media but can be remedied with personal, positive experiences.
People would be surprised at how black Americans are very different versus how we are portrayed in media. I remember reading actually that black Americans are much more compassionate versus other demographics and more willing to help others. Also that we are more likely to perform a "heroic" deed versus other demographics, yet many people don't know this.
I personally state a lot of positives about black people on the forums, which are true, and many times posters have argued against what I stated and when presented with evidence will say they "don't believe it" and that is because they cannot see outside of their biases. I do believe that a majority of people today in America are willing to view another narrative, it is just that that narrative is not being provided and it especially does need to be provided to our law enforcement community.
I know that some activists want to make police officers live in the cities they serve and I do see a benefit of this as well, but usually when that occurs, the officers live in a particular neighborhood filled with other officers and I'm not one to agree to tell people what neighborhood they should be living in.
I'm not sure there is any education you can give to an adult that can overcome a "reptilian response" though. That's a high amount of reconditioning that 2 hours with a counselor one day is not going to fix.
And I completely agree with the large difference between black people in real life vs in the media. All black people that I know in real life are lovely lovely people. On TV they are scary. Lol.
I'm not sure there is any education you can give to an adult that can overcome a "reptilian response" though. That's a high amount of reconditioning that 2 hours with a counselor one day is not going to fix.
And I completely agree with the large difference between black people in real life vs in the media. All black people that I know in real life are lovely lovely people. On TV they are scary. Lol.
I think is is mainly police training that does this to cops.
Perhaps in the 60's cop violence on black men was due to the cop feeling that the black man was "less than human".
But today, no. Today cop violence on black men is because the cop is scared of what the black man is going to do. Is the black man going to kill me? Kill someone else? Come back later with his friends and do a drive by into my home where my child is sleeping? Inspire some guy in an unrelated city to kill a bunch of other cops with a sniper rifle?
It is FEAR. As long as the media continues to propagate the idea that black men are strong and violent, all white people, from the time they begin to watch TV, will be scared of the black man.
Do you know why cops don't shoot Asians? Because I cannot remember a single TV show or movie where an Asian guy has ever shot anybody. Karate chopped maybe. But shot, no. But blacks? Yeah. It is ingrained into our psyche from birth onward that the black man shoots people. It's on all the shows, in all the movies. Perhaps we should start there?
On the red, it is the same today. If you don't believe that, when all of the sudden did it change from "less than human" to "fear." FWIW, those are the same things. Today people say that blacks are "like animals." When you de-humanize something, you are afraid of it.
The fear of blacks has always been associated with us being seen as animals.
You keep bringing up Asians...
In regards to that I will mention the fact that Asians also have received unfair treatment in our criminal justice system, usually it is in relation to Asian victims of white assailants not receiving justice, same as black people when that occurs.
You can also see the cases in NYC where a Chinese American cop was convicted of murdering a black man, yet the white officers involved in Eric Garner's death were not even though there was excessive video evidence.
And FWIW, cops actually have killed Asian Americans who were unarmed because they were afraid they were going to use martial arts on them
I'm not sure there is any education you can give to an adult that can overcome a "reptilian response" though. That's a high amount of reconditioning that 2 hours with a counselor one day is not going to fix.
And I completely agree with the large difference between black people in real life vs in the media. All black people that I know in real life are lovely lovely people. On TV they are scary. Lol.
Cultural education would need to occur regularly IMO. It is hard to change people's biases and perceptions but I have known educators especially to took on-going cultural bias classes and it opened their eyes and did make them more aware of what may be a biased response on their part to a child.
Here is the bottom line. Take two communities. One predominately white suburban and middle class and the other predominately black, urban and poor. The people in the former are seen as hard working, intelligent, caring, etc. The people in the latter are seen as lazy, irresponsible and violent. There is no way you can tell me that people in the two communities will be treated the same and policed the same. It's just not going to happen regardless of how you try to make police seem race and class blind.
Lets ignore for a minute the dynamics of the officer and victim. Why do so many white people, who were not there, always assume that the police was justified? Why does not the black person get the benefit of the doubt when you are not there to know what really happened? The same reason that the white public rarely gives blacks the benefit of the doubt in situations like this is the same reason that white officers are more likely to shoot blacks in a situation like that. It's rooted in the same phenomenon. It's rooted in stereotypes and lack of respect.
The other side to this equation and anecdotal report is here:
My grandparents grew up in the deep South. I was raised in many places but I was very fond of all the legends and stories told to me about the black culture their stories. I regularly listened to Brer Bear and Fox and the lessons that the Tar Baby taught us... My parents and grandparents were uniformly respectful of the differences and the benefits. Over time I found that black youth would target me and others for treatment other than kind. I learned from numerous interactions that equally intelligent people UC System California held a definite superior attitude as if they were better than I. When I excelled they blamed white privilege. Over the next 30 years I found that despite my own rearing to be equal and fair, they were not. My son was beat up for his jacket. ( I put those three in jail). When one got out and returned to school with my son, I had him relocated. The attitude I received was boy you're a real difficult guy. Despite pointing out the fact that the perpetrator was a criminal and my son the victim they were unrelenting in their stance. Several years later when I worked at a local and major hospital, a man innocently hit a boy on a bicycle. The driver of the car was white, the youth black. They hauled him from his car and killed him escaping into the night. I moved away from the black culture at that point much to my dismay and lived in areas free of the rage, the entitlement and the violence for many many years. I returned and worked in a hospital in Compton which eventually was closed by the Federal Government. Over the six months I was there, the black administration, supervisors and nurses treated the hospital like their living room. Patients died on the ER floor and it was common for black nurses to arrive, turn off the patients alarms and go to sleep. Eventually the L.A. Times won a Pulitzer Prize for the reporting telling about the horrors there. During this the black community rose up again saying it was about racists white ones and I began to see how a culture could fail. When Mike Brown was killed and the POTUS sent his reps to the funeral and to his parents I knew that the dysfunction was real and the race was broken beyond repair.
I left and returned about 4 years ago where many of my patients are black and other races. I do not see many differences, but in my role they are typically respectful and their gifts to me from their humor and families I welcome.
My understanding is this that over 60 years the black community (a large part of it) and the powers that be who are also black have a broken mindset in which they think that the problem is actually the other guy who happens to be white. Smart black families keep their kids away from this viewpoint as it is a mental illness as defined (a fixed false belief). Coming from a place where I loved and enjoyed the culture to now seeing it broken on it's knees watching blacks on the bridge in Minnesota having a good time opposing the police and injuring 20 of them last night with rocks and bottles I think it's changed to far to be made right.
I advocate arrests for any person breaking the law, stopping traffic and other crimes. The shootings in Minneapolis and Baton Rouge will be investigated. But it's easy for me to see why these officers shot these guys (and it makes me feel just awful)....because they too may have witnessed the failure of the black family to police and raise the young men...and like abandoned children the fathers gone they are angry lost and rudderless in todays world.
Last edited by AADAD; 07-11-2016 at 12:18 PM..
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