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You mean like the difference between a regular slave and an indenture servant (a voluntary form of slavery).
Dude, you have no choice but to rent your body to the employer. And your employer makes money out of your labor. If the employer paid your labor in full then the employer makes no money.
You say you agree to donate part of your productivity to the owner because you agree to it, but in reality you have no choice. At the end of the day you need to eat and put a roof over your head. At least regular slaves got free room and board. OTOH, you have to pay for your own.
its more nuanced than that but the likes of nike or apple employing asians for pennies is a form of corporate slavery in many ways , those products could easily be made in the usa or apple could pay the asians more , the corporation has all the power
Thank you for admitting this. Most of my friends in Scandinavia have been saying this about Scandinavia for MANY years. Interesting that this is true in Ireland.
its very true , i believe in goverment healthcare as being healthy is essential to being a productive citizen , i do not believe the goverment should fund third level education , vast majority of the worlds best third level institutes are american , australia has a good system which ireland should emulate , you pay back your college loan over many years and at a reasonable interest rate , i also believe there needs to be a push towards apprenticeships , in germany , only 40% of people go to university , a huge number of high school graduates do apprenticeships with the goal of getting a trade , no wonder germany is such an industrial powerhouse , having a trade is seen as a worthy goal , in ireland , high school graduates are more likely to take a degree in womens studies or gender equality and thats just the male students
Size is irrelevant. What matters is the philosophical differences between folks in Norway and the USA. In Norway the government is for all. IN the USA the government is for the donor class. Denial is not a river in Egypt, but nice try.
what makes america so unique is not the level of inequality but how poor folks ( especially the poor who vote republican ) seem always willing to take one in the gut so the wall st set dont have to , the poor in america vote to get mugged all the time , maybe thats a reflection of that unique american optimism or maybe its down to centuries of conditioning where the richer you are is a gauge of how decent you are as a human being
what makes america so unique is not the level of inequality but how poor folks ( especially the poor who vote republican ) seem always willing to take one in the gut so the wall st set dont have to , the poor in america vote to get mugged all the time , maybe thats a reflection of that unique american optimism or maybe its down to centuries of conditioning where the richer you are is a gauge of how decent you are as a human being
I agree!
The poor white American folks of European ancestry do not want to be associated with the party that has blacks and gays as members. Therefore, they would rather commit economic suicide.
Have any of you ever read "The Rise and Fall of Great Civilizations" by Fraser Tytler (a European historian) that discusses the fall of the Athenian Republic?
The piece makes some great points and rings eerily true to how most governments have failed. From Tyster's research he made the following determination:
"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising them the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over a loss of fiscal responsibility, always followed by a dictatorship. The average of the world's great civilizations before they decline has been 200 years. These nations have progressed in this sequence:
From bondage to spiritual faith,
From spiritual faith to great courage,
From courage to liberty,
From liberty to abundance,
From abundance to selfishness,
From selfishness to complacency,
From complacency to apathy,
From apathy to dependency,
From dependency back again to bondage."
As we see in our country right now, voters have long determined that they can benefit from the US Treasury. I think we are at this stage right now: "From apathy to dependency," No one is truly concerned about the way the government is handling things. Instead, folks talk about having the government provide more.
By allowing socialism into the country, we will move into dependency on the Government to provide more and more to us. Eventually we will become so dependent on the Government that we will give up more of our rights and freedoms in return for a "safety net" that they can provide to us. Once they do this long enough, we turn to a dictatorship where all facets of our lives are ruled by the government. Look at Cuba, Russia, China, North Korea, (and Nazi Germany for a short time) and other countries where this holds true.
Norman Thomas wrote this in 1944:
"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism,' they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened. I need no longer run as a Presidential Candidate for the Socialist Party. The Democratic Party has adopted our platform."
Since the timeline is about 200 years before a country falls, we are 40 years past due for this to happen, but the slow progression is there and very visible for anyone willing to see it.
There's not one thing socialist government can do that is better. Not even one, none.
Post office? You have to be BSing here. Post office, by the government's own admission, is one of the most wasteful organization. It rakes in billions of loss each year. Try to compare the USPS with UPS, Fedex...
And FBI, CIA, military and police are part of socialism?
Have any of you ever read "The Rise and Fall of Great Civilizations" by Fraser Tytler (a European historian) that discusses the fall of the Athenian Republic?
The piece makes some great points and rings eerily true to how most governments have failed. From Tyster's research he made the following determination:
"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising them the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over a loss of fiscal responsibility, always followed by a dictatorship. The average of the world's great civilizations before they decline has been 200 years. These nations have progressed in this sequence:
From bondage to spiritual faith,
From spiritual faith to great courage,
From courage to liberty,
From liberty to abundance,
From abundance to selfishness,
From selfishness to complacency,
From complacency to apathy,
From apathy to dependency,
From dependency back again to bondage."
As we see in our country right now, voters have long determined that they can benefit from the US Treasury. I think we are at this stage right now: "From apathy to dependency," No one is truly concerned about the way the government is handling things. Instead, folks talk about having the government provide more.
By allowing socialism into the country, we will move into dependency on the Government to provide more and more to us. Eventually we will become so dependent on the Government that we will give up more of our rights and freedoms in return for a "safety net" that they can provide to us. Once they do this long enough, we turn to a dictatorship where all facets of our lives are ruled by the government. Look at Cuba, Russia, China, North Korea, (and Nazi Germany for a short time) and other countries where this holds true.
Norman Thomas wrote this in 1944:
"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism,' they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened. I need no longer run as a Presidential Candidate for the Socialist Party. The Democratic Party has adopted our platform."
Since the timeline is about 200 years before a country falls, we are 40 years past due for this to happen, but the slow progression is there and very visible for anyone willing to see it.
No one is preaching communism.
But, the government should have free state universities. We now have free from k-12 and it simply needs to be extended to k-16. Yeah, yeah, I know we pay with taxes, but that is better than the gouging of American students that are in deep debt.
A civilized advanced country should have a National Health CARE PROGRAM. In fact, health care should be like an utility (electricity, water, Internet, etc) and available to all with little fuzz. There is no need for corporate America to male billions by simply acting as intermediaries between patients and health providers.
Otherwise, I am all in favor of capitalism since at this time it is the economic system that humans need to be motivated and be productive.
Capitalism also needs to be more empathetic to workers and not treat them as pseudo-slaves.
You mean like the difference between a regular slave and an indenture servant (a voluntary form of slavery).
Dude, you have no choice but to rent your body to the employer. And your employer makes money out of your labor. If the employer paid your labor in full then the employer makes no money.
You say you agree to donate part of your productivity to the owner because you agree to it, but in reality you have no choice. At the end of the day you need to eat and put a roof over your head. At least regular slaves got free room and board. OTOH, you have to pay for your own.
We need to respect each person is an responsible individual capable of making his or her own decisions for his/her own life. Socialism assumes that's not possible - this is where we are different.
Here's the good part of the capitalism. If you don't want to be employed by someone or "indentured servant" using your word, you are more than welcome to start your own business - millions of people do. Netflix started with just a few dollars and out-competed Blockbuster in a few years. Apple started from a garage and became the world's most valuable company.
This is called the freedom of choice, a very fundamental freedom this country is based on. Indentured servants or slaves do not have the freedom of choice.
But, the government should have free state universities. We now have free from k-12 and it simply needs to be extended to k-16. Yeah, yeah, I know we pay with taxes, but that is better than the gouging of American students that are in deep debt.
A civilized advanced country should have a National Health CARE PROGRAM. In fact, health care should be like an utility (electricity, water, Internet, etc) and available to all with little fuzz. There is no need for corporate America to male billions by simply acting as intermediaries between patients and health providers.
Otherwise, I am all in favor of capitalism since at this time it is the economic system that humans need to be motivated and be productive.
Capitalism also needs to be more empathetic to workers and not treat them as pseudo-slaves.
Workers should have their labor taken from them so someone else can go to school for free-slavery
Workers should have their labor taken from them to provide for someone else's health concerns- slavery
Workers should pick cotton so that their masters can live in luxury- slavery
Where is your empathy for the worker?
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