The big ObamaCare bubble is about to explode! (Iran, Christmas, health care system)

[SHABAZZ310]

Originally Posted by T-310

Until then, the fine is cheaper.

For some people maybe. But I don't go without insurance and wouldn't recommend doing so...

[workingclasshero]

Originally Posted by SHABAZZ310

I want single payer and I pay my premiums. You started your argument off with a falsehood..

why 'would you want' singlepayer??

singlepayer will never happen... the people(the taxpayer) CAN'T AFFORD IT

we've seen what a 'government option' is like...just look at the dept of health HORROR CLINICS

oh and its NEVER free.... as a taxpayer you cant afford singlepayer



ever worked a budget, or seen what the actual medical costs are???...this is not about insurance..its about actual cost of care

national health care..or singlepayer..or universal health care...cant be done without killing the taxpayer

national health care or mediciad for all.. or whatever you want to call it will cost 3 trillion to 6 trillion YEARLY and ALWAYS going up

there are only 140 million tax FILERS of which 47% dont pay anything or nearly nothing...so there are only about 70-75 million tax PAYERS

are you a taxpayer....then you wont be able to afford medicare for all (which is NOT a 100% singlepayer( it is a 80/20 insurance)


we've seen what a 'government option' is like...just look at the dept of health HORROR CLINICS

oh and its NEVER free.... as a taxpayer you cant afford singlepayer

================================================== =============

singlepayer wont save you a dime.... but if you are a taxpayer you sure will be screwed

if the payer (government in this case) says the payment is xxx, yet the provider NEEDS yyy to cover all his over head, then its not just about a payment...we have many (some say as many as 1500) cost of living areas within the usa.... that's one of the key things to remember is that one size does not fit all


with UHC you cant GUARENTEE of QUALITY care (look at the health dept horror clinics)

you (the taxpayer) cant afford singlepayer aka uhc....unless we change the tax system

singlepayer ( total government funding(taxpayer) and total government control) is NOT what we need...not if we EXPECT the QUALITY of care

when you look at the COSTS of ACTUAL care (not insurance) and the OVERHEAD costs associated with the care..the cost would be astronomical to cover 320 million people

and lets look at the some other numbers:

the ACTUAL cost just to help americans with Alzheimer's is over 300 billion every year

and let's not forget:

Obesity rates among ALL OECD nations increased in recent years, with the highest rate in the U.S. at 34.3% -- which means one in 3 Americans is by definition obese.----costing 250 billion per year and will grow to 344 billion within the next 2 years
New Data Shows Obesity Costs Will Grow to $344 Billion by 2018 | Partnership to Fight Chronic Disease


number of americans getting cancer (new cases) per year 1.8 million for a total of 19 million people being treated (fighting) each year...each year at least 570,000 die from cancer....the cost is over 100 billion. and expected to be 158 billion by 2020



number of americans with heart disease: 26.2 million and of those..((Number of visits with heart disease as primary diagnosis: 16 million ))((Number of discharges with heart disease as first-listed diagnosis: 4.2 million)).....800,000 people in the USA die from heart disease annually....the cost 440 billionannualy



number of americans in full pledged nursing homes: 2 million...... the average cost Adult Day Health Care,.18,000 per year......assisted living facility 43,000 per year....nursing home (semi-private room),.80,000 per year.......nursing home (private room),.91,000
number of americans in all levels of nursing homes and assisted living....11 million (Annually 10,995,100 people receive support from the 5 main long-term care service; home health agencies (5,742,500), nursing homes (2,383,700), hospices (1,544,500), residential care communities (913,300) and adult day service centers (373,200)...............total cost of long term care 450 billion annually...and going up every year
https://www.genworth.com/corporate/a...t-of-care.html





More than 25 million Americans have significant vision loss.((a total of 80 million Americans have potentially blinding eye diseases. )) (((hmmm more than 25 million americans are blind or going blind.....that's more than Norway, Finland, Denmark, Switzerland, and Austria COMBINED TOTAL population....)))......The cost of vision loss, including direct costs and lost productivity, is estimated to exceed $139 billion
Cost of Vision Problems — Discussion


number of americans with diabetes: 29 million....total cost 295 billion per year


number of americans with asthma: 26 million....Each day 11 Americans die from asthma.......annual costs 66 billion per yearand increasing


while some of those may overlap...look at those numbers that's over 150 million with MAJOR health problem,,costly problems......we will ALWAYS be the largest spender in the world...we have the 3rd highest population in the world (next to china and India) and we have more people (total, not a percentage) with major problems than any other country in Europe.....I just showed you at least 150 million people with cancer, heart, blindness, diabetes, asthma.......that's more than France and great Britain COMBINED for their total populations.




================================================== ============



so what are we saying we should FORCE doctors and nurse to work for minimum wage. and have offices in huts

when you pay that doctor $100 ,, its not 100 dollars going into his pocket...there are lots of other COSTS

how are you going to control the cost of medical equipment(mri or x-ray machines, etc)??????most xray machine are made in Denmark

how are you going to control the cost of the rising electric bills the doctors/hospitals are facing????

how are you going to control the rising property tax/rent/mortgage that doctors face?????

how are you going to control the cost of supplies(gauze, plaster, silk, rubber, polystyrene( a oil product)?????especially some supplies that aren't even american

how are you going to control the cost of people salaries???? a maximum wage???

how they are going to control the employment costs for Doctors, nurses, technicians, hospital food operators, hospital linen cleaning service, custodial services, medical transcribers........are you going to 'nationalize' every profession that is even remotely connected to medicine????

how are they going to control malpractice INSURANCE COSTS?????

don't you get it... medicine (like anyother SERVICE) costs money,,(,money that our government doesn't have)

want to know A BIG REASON why its lower in those other countries.??? salaries.....a nurse in France(actually most of europe) makes about 1500-1800 a month(in us dollars)..that's 18-20000 a year.....meanwhile according to payscale.com the average Rn makes 40-78,000 in the usa


is that what you want??? do you want to have medical PROFESSIONALS be forced to work for nearly minimum wage



.............I and most people (to include republicans) would be all for single payer...except for two things that the "pro singlepayer" people cant answer.......

1. it wouldn't be like the CRAPCARE of the health department clinics (death traps), I want a GUARENTEE of QUALITY care (not health dept horror clinics)...
2. and there was a fair way of funding it......replacing the personal income tax, the estate tax, the corporate tax with the fair tax (a consumption tax) is about the only way to fund it...but the liberals will never go for it...their ansewr is MORE taxes on the middleclass

if you are a taxpayer...you cant afford singlepayer

[jerseygal4u]

I can tell none of the Anti-ACA idiots on here are working in healthcare field.

First,the plan was right when it said everyone must purchase health insurance.

Why? Do you know how many people think ER medicine is "free"?

These are people that CAN afford it btw....i do not know why people think health insurance is not important.

So you can pay a $600 car payment but cannot something dealing with your HEALTH!


Anyway,i hope this does evolve into single payer......too many people think healthcare is free.

[jerseygal4u]

Originally Posted by workingclasshero

why 'would you want' singlepayer??

singlepayer will never happen... the people(the taxpayer) CAN'T AFFORD IT

we've seen what a 'government option' is like...just look at the dept of health HORROR CLINICS

oh and its NEVER free.... as a taxpayer you cant afford singlepayer



ever worked a budget, or seen what the actual medical costs are???...this is not about insurance..its about actual cost of care

national health care..or singlepayer..or universal health care...cant be done without killing the taxpayer

national health care or mediciad for all.. or whatever you want to call it will cost 3 trillion to 6 trillion YEARLY and ALWAYS going up

there are only 140 million tax FILERS of which 47% dont pay anything or nearly nothing...so there are only about 70-75 million tax PAYERS

are you a taxpayer....then you wont be able to afford medicare for all (which is NOT a 100% singlepayer( it is a 80/20 insurance)


we've seen what a 'government option' is like...just look at the dept of health HORROR CLINICS

oh and its NEVER free.... as a taxpayer you cant afford singlepayer

================================================== =============

singlepayer wont save you a dime.... but if you are a taxpayer you sure will be screwed

if the payer (government in this case) says the payment is xxx, yet the provider NEEDS yyy to cover all his over head, then its not just about a payment...we have many (some say as many as 1500) cost of living areas within the usa.... that's one of the key things to remember is that one size does not fit all


with UHC you cant GUARENTEE of QUALITY care (look at the health dept horror clinics)

you (the taxpayer) cant afford singlepayer aka uhc....unless we change the tax system

singlepayer ( total government funding(taxpayer) and total government control) is NOT what we need...not if we EXPECT the QUALITY of care

when you look at the COSTS of ACTUAL care (not insurance) and the OVERHEAD costs associated with the care..the cost would be astronomical to cover 320 million people

and lets look at the some other numbers:

the ACTUAL cost just to help americans with Alzheimer's is over 300 billion every year

and let's not forget:

Obesity rates among ALL OECD nations increased in recent years, with the highest rate in the U.S. at 34.3% -- which means one in 3 Americans is by definition obese.----costing 250 billion per year and will grow to 344 billion within the next 2 years
New Data Shows Obesity Costs Will Grow to $344 Billion by 2018 | Partnership to Fight Chronic Disease


number of americans getting cancer (new cases) per year 1.8 million for a total of 19 million people being treated (fighting) each year...each year at least 570,000 die from cancer....the cost is over 100 billion. and expected to be 158 billion by 2020



number of americans with heart disease: 26.2 million and of those..((Number of visits with heart disease as primary diagnosis: 16 million ))((Number of discharges with heart disease as first-listed diagnosis: 4.2 million)).....800,000 people in the USA die from heart disease annually....the cost 440 billionannualy



number of americans in full pledged nursing homes: 2 million...... the average cost Adult Day Health Care,.18,000 per year......assisted living facility 43,000 per year....nursing home (semi-private room),.80,000 per year.......nursing home (private room),.91,000
number of americans in all levels of nursing homes and assisted living....11 million (Annually 10,995,100 people receive support from the 5 main long-term care service; home health agencies (5,742,500), nursing homes (2,383,700), hospices (1,544,500), residential care communities (913,300) and adult day service centers (373,200)...............total cost of long term care 450 billion annually...and going up every year
https://www.genworth.com/corporate/a...t-of-care.html





More than 25 million Americans have significant vision loss.((a total of 80 million Americans have potentially blinding eye diseases. )) (((hmmm more than 25 million americans are blind or going blind.....that's more than Norway, Finland, Denmark, Switzerland, and Austria COMBINED TOTAL population....)))......The cost of vision loss, including direct costs and lost productivity, is estimated to exceed $139 billion
Cost of Vision Problems — Discussion


number of americans with diabetes: 29 million....total cost 295 billion per year


number of americans with asthma: 26 million....Each day 11 Americans die from asthma.......annual costs 66 billion per yearand increasing


while some of those may overlap...look at those numbers that's over 150 million with MAJOR health problem,,costly problems......we will ALWAYS be the largest spender in the world...we have the 3rd highest population in the world (next to china and India) and we have more people (total, not a percentage) with major problems than any other country in Europe.....I just showed you at least 150 million people with cancer, heart, blindness, diabetes, asthma.......that's more than France and great Britain COMBINED for their total populations.




================================================== ============



so what are we saying we should FORCE doctors and nurse to work for minimum wage. and have offices in huts

when you pay that doctor $100 ,, its not 100 dollars going into his pocket...there are lots of other COSTS

how are you going to control the cost of medical equipment(mri or x-ray machines, etc)??????most xray machine are made in Denmark

how are you going to control the cost of the rising electric bills the doctors/hospitals are facing????

how are you going to control the rising property tax/rent/mortgage that doctors face?????

how are you going to control the cost of supplies(gauze, plaster, silk, rubber, polystyrene( a oil product)?????especially some supplies that aren't even american

how are you going to control the cost of people salaries???? a maximum wage???

how they are going to control the employment costs for Doctors, nurses, technicians, hospital food operators, hospital linen cleaning service, custodial services, medical transcribers........are you going to 'nationalize' every profession that is even remotely connected to medicine????

how are they going to control malpractice INSURANCE COSTS?????

don't you get it... medicine (like anyother SERVICE) costs money,,(,money that our government doesn't have)

want to know A BIG REASON why its lower in those other countries.??? salaries.....a nurse in France(actually most of europe) makes about 1500-1800 a month(in us dollars)..that's 18-20000 a year.....meanwhile according to payscale.com the average Rn makes 40-78,000 in the usa


is that what you want??? do you want to have medical PROFESSIONALS be forced to work for nearly minimum wage



.............I and most people (to include republicans) would be all for single payer...except for two things that the "pro singlepayer" people cant answer.......

1. it wouldn't be like the CRAPCARE of the health department clinics (death traps), I want a GUARENTEE of QUALITY care (not health dept horror clinics)...
2. and there was a fair way of funding it......replacing the personal income tax, the estate tax, the corporate tax with the fair tax (a consumption tax) is about the only way to fund it...but the liberals will never go for it...their ansewr is MORE taxes on the middleclass

if you are a taxpayer...you cant afford singlepayer

For this plan to work,you will have to tax the 47%.....no ifs,ands,or buts.

You might also have to decrease military spending.

Oh,and no illegal immigrants should not be included.

[ContrarianEcon]

Originally Posted by DRob4JC

The bubble is supposed to burst. How else is single payer supposed to be palatable except when all others options are destroyed?

You have to pass it to see what is inside. let it implode. the ashes will build something better on their own.

[DRob4JC]

Originally Posted by ContrarianEcon

You have to pass it to see what is inside. let it implode. the ashes will build something better on their own.

That depends on who is in charge. We absolutely can not afford a Clinton presidency with a fully Dem Congress.

----------------------------

Next president faces possible ObamaCare meltdown

Clinton has already laid out plans to help boost enrollment by making coverage more affordable for people who are still priced out of ObamaCare.

Why are people still priced out of ObamaCare? Wasn't that supposed to be fixed by now?

In some corners, though, insurer complaints are seen as fresh evidence that ObamaCare marketplaces are on the brink.

In the last month, two major insurers — Aetna and Anthem — both reversed course on their plans to expand in the marketplace. Now, all five of the nation’s largest insurers say they are losing money on the exchanges.

Surprise, surprise!!
-- Gomer Pyle


Someone needs to come up with a contingency plan pronto - because we can be assured that single payer legislation has already been written, and is ready to be deployed.

[ContrarianEcon]

Originally Posted by DRob4JC

That depends on who is in charge. We absolutely can not afford a Clinton presidency with a fully Dem Congress.


...

No crap.


But supply side economics is fundamentally flawed as well. We needs some kind of protectionism preferably one that encourages the overpayment of foreign workers. We need to incentivize the payment of wages inside of the US. Disincentive the creation of more debt. (That kind of investment is destructive if overdone.)


I don't see that coming from anyone and so it doesn't matter who wins. Trump may actually get the nod over Hillary but mostly six of one half a dozen of the other.

[miu]

IMO everyone needs to have a catastrophic health insurance plan only. Otherwise, everyone should be able to pay for out of their own pocket for an annual physical... and for the low income people, that cost could be on a sliding scale fee. I don't see the need for any health insurance coverage to include "free" annual physicals.

And there should be some sort of regulation as to how much a patient should be charged for a physical and tests such as mammograms and colonoscopies.

If I ever need an x-ray, I used to tell one of my former veterinarians that I would go to him for it since he only charged $75 to take an x-ray for my cat.

And can we please place a cap on insurance malpractice payouts? Winning a malpractice suit should not be akin as winning a lottery. And instead of going through lawyers, could we set up an arbitration board instead? Let's get rid of the ambulance chasing lawyers.

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Originally Posted by SHABAZZ310

I want single payer and I pay my premiums. You started your argument off with a falsehood..

Pardon me if I have my doubts about your honesty.

[SHABAZZ310]

Originally Posted by TheMoreYouKnow

Pardon me if I have my doubts about your honesty.

No pardons necessary for you. Everyone on this board understands your agenda... And I'll leave it at that...