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We are nowhere near that point where all of the land in the US is "gobbled up" and one of the current trends is for denser urban living. There are ways around this issue.
Many people drastically underestimate how culturally diverse late nineteenth and early twentieth century America was. My hometown of Dayton, Ohio featured neighborhoods where several languages were zookeeper and featured German language schools and newspapers. I can think of a small Ohio River mining town in Appalachian Ohio that had newspapers in three different languages. Much of America is actually less diverse now than then. Over a hundred languages were spoken in NYC.
There are also many more housing units available in Dayton (and Springfield, and Cincinnati, etc) than there were fifty years ago. Not suprisingly, it is the immigrants (in Dayton's case, mostly Turkish) who are buying and rehabilitating run-down properties and revitalizing neighborhoods. But yeah, no room for them
There are also many more housing units available in Dayton (and Springfield, and Cincinnati, etc) than there were fifty years ago. Not suprisingly, it is the immigrants (in Dayton's case, mostly Turkish) who are buying and rehabilitating run-down properties and revitalizing neighborhoods. But yeah, no room for them
It's not about land or properties but the carrying capacity of a nation in regards to natural and social resources and job availability. Legal immigration is ok in limited numbers that fits those criterias.
It's also pointless to debate a situation 100 years ago. There are so many variables at play in today's society.
Lol @ proof. It's all around you.
Who do you think invented organized crime in this country? The Navajo?
As to illegal, that's well known. Italians got their denigrating acronym W.O.P. because it meant "without papers."
You surely don't expect me to believe that a ton of Irish, Jews, and other groups ALL came here legally, do you?
Because they damn sure didn't.
And European immigrants, far from being assimilationists, were hell bent on keeping their languages and customs. Their children and grandchildren would eventually melt into the pot, but not the immigrants themselves.
I guess you're not familiar with the Homestead Acts. The offer of free land was very enticing to many immigrants.
That wasn't welfare.
They worked their butt off on that land for 5 years before they got to own it and they PAID taxes on it.
Here is a piece of the puzzle you are missing (or ignoring for political purposes), the government tried to, but could NOT SELL that land, the US government profited by enticing those to make the move and then pay the taxes on it.
It seems like the main justification I hear for keeping the immigrants rolling in, from both the Left and Right in America, is that we're a "nation of immigrants". They point to, for example, the wave of Irish immigrants 100 years ago.
But aren't the circumstances a lot different today?
Not as much space. 100 years ago, there was still plenty of land to move to. Now it's all gobbled up, so that more people means pricer housing and propoerty.
Not as many jobs. Automation, outsourcing, and so forth have already created a situation where there is a lot of competition for jobs. There is not even enough jobs being created for the native-born Americans entering the working age, and yet we need to bring in more people to compete for the limited number of jobs?
Welfare. When the Irish immigrants came, it was work or starve. Nowadays, you come here and you are automatically entitled to tax dollars for not working, to unlimited $$$ for college tuition, to "health care", etc. It's been shown that today's immigrants are taking more in tax dollars than they are paying in tax dollars.
Not as easy to assimilate. Since America is such a culuturally divided country, there is no longer a "melting pot." Obviously it was easier for the Irish immigrants since America was 95% Christian, 95% White, 95% watched baseball, 95% spoke English in their homes, etc.
Circumstances are a lot different today and as you point out you can't compare immigration 100 years ago, or 200 years ago to today. But notice the same people who do are the ones who have no problem with Obama trying to use the Crusades to justify ISIS, so consider the source.
Who do you think invented organized crime in this country? The Navajo?
Surely Native Americans didn't have organized crime. I mean the Aztecs only brutally killed, raped, and pillaged from their neighbors to the point where it is believed that they once executed 80,000 people in one ceremony. All Native Americans lived in harmony with one another and were in perfect balance with nature. It is not like Cahokia chopped down all of the trees for fires and destroyed their environment and is the first example of urban decay in America!
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter
As to illegal, that's well known. Italians got their denigrating acronym W.O.P. because it meant "without papers."
It may be "well known," but it isn't true.
Now that you know, you can stop with that fairy tale.
It seems like the main justification I hear for keeping the immigrants rolling in, from both the Left and Right in America, is that we're a "nation of immigrants". They point to, for example, the wave of Irish immigrants 100 years ago.
But aren't the circumstances a lot different today?
Quote:
Originally Posted by KonaldDuth
Not as much space. 100 years ago, there was still plenty of land to move to. Now it's all gobbled up, so that more people means pricer housing and propoerty.
I agree that housing and property are more expensive today than 100 years but most immigrants are not living in the most desirable locations. If anything, some might argue their presence is driving the value of houses and property down because native-born and naturalized citizens don't want to live around them. And keep in mind, when you sell your house/property at that high price, you won't be complaining.
Regarding the size of the population, native-born births also contributed to the growth in population over the last 100 years. The question, that I don't have the answer for at the moment, is: what would the population be if immigration stopped in 1916, 1926, ...19n6?
Quote:
Originally Posted by KonaldDuth
Not as many jobs. Automation, outsourcing, and so forth have already created a situation where there is a lot of competition for jobs. There is not even enough jobs being created for the native-born Americans entering the working age, and yet we need to bring in more people to compete for the limited number of jobs?
This is a timeless argument since immigration began. The big difference is a lot of immigrants in 2016 are better educated than native-born Americans. Employers want the best employees and if those employees are immigrants, then so be it. Employers are not obligated to hire people, who may not be the most qualified, simply because they are native-born. Honestly, that sad, but it's the nature of our economic system.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KonaldDuth
Welfare. When the Irish immigrants came, it was work or starve. Nowadays, you come here and you are automatically entitled to tax dollars for not working, to unlimited $$$ for college tuition, to "health care", etc. It's been shown that today's immigrants are taking more in tax dollars than they are paying in tax dollars.
Welfare in general, and especially in its current form, didn't exist 100 years ago. Therefore, you had to work or starve. And I am certain that a lot of people did starve. With that said, not all immigrants are on welfare. They have good jobs - the one's they "took" from Americans. Anyway, I think it is unrealistic to believe that 100 years ago (some) immigrants would not have been on welfare if it did exist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KonaldDuth
Not as easy to assimilate. Since America is such a culuturally divided country, there is no longer a "melting pot." Obviously it was easier for the Irish immigrants since America was 95% Christian, 95% White, 95% watched baseball, 95% spoke English in their homes, etc.
It is difficult to say whether immigrants today are not assimilating at the same pace or degree that immigrants 100 years ago. How do you measure assimilation and who was doing the measuring? I acknowledge that not all immigrants are assimilating. With that said, many of today's immigrants are assimilating. But unless you plan on following an immigrant family from one generation to the next, you won't notice it. Some of the really motivated immigrants assimilate faster (so they can "take" American jobs) while for others, it doesn't happen until the second generation. But if they're the second generation of the immigrants, then they really aren't immigrants anymore. And certainly not if they were born here.
I empathize with the immigrant mindset and experience. I was born in another country to a native-born father and (at that time, soon-to-be) immigrant mother. Therefore, I am an immigrant when I drill down far enough. But I infrequently describe myself today as such from a practical standpoint.
There will always be a need for immigrant labor as long as we have large swaths of Americans avoiding work in order to collect welfare benefits. The hard-working ethics of immigrants have a positive effect on our culture as a whole.
There will always be a need for immigrant labor as long as we have large swaths of Americans avoiding work in order to collect welfare benefits. The hard-working ethics of immigrants have a positive effect on our culture as a whole.
We have enough non-lazy, hard working Americans willing and able to do any jobs in this country. However, when they have to compete with cheap foreign labor both legally and illegally in this country it is unfair competition.
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