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Old 08-16-2016, 05:08 PM
 
Location: Texas
5,847 posts, read 6,183,656 times
Reputation: 12327

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Quote:
Originally Posted by texan2yankee View Post
Malpractice insurance premiums are paid by doctors. That insurance is very expensive.
When my husband left practice in Texas to move to Colorado in 2012 (we've since moved back), we had to pay $35,000 for tail coverage, which is a one time, lump sum cash payment to insure you against any claims brought during the timeframe between when you've left practice in a state and when the statute of limitations elapses. Of course, any claims would have occurred during a time that you were already covered by that malpractice insurance, so they are charging you twice for the same covered timeframe, but so what, right?

And that 35K was comparatively inexpensive when compared to many other states.
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Old 08-16-2016, 05:37 PM
 
4,299 posts, read 2,809,897 times
Reputation: 2132
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
"Natural medicine"?

What the hell is that?

There are MANY things patients CAN DO for themselves (exercies, diet, refrain from smoking and drugs), yet most will not do it.

Most "natural" medicines do not have the labeled "drug" in the "medicine" and are mostly fillers. Herbals DO have some chemical activities which can be beneficial. However, the 'drugs" that can be purchased are rarely in the product and there is a little issue of dosing.

Patients are deluded by the term "natural", as they do not realize that nearly ALL pharmaceuticals ARE ORGANIC COMPOUNDS, many of which came from "nature". These compounds have been modified and purified for better efficacy.
Exactly they've been modified. Stop messing with nature. If it ain't broke don't fix it. If herbs and supplements were just like drugs the drugs wouldn't have hardly any side effects. Many drugs aren't necessary maybe some are but a lot of them are to line the doctors and pharmaceutical's pockets.
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Old 08-16-2016, 07:21 PM
 
Location: Midwest
38,496 posts, read 25,808,661 times
Reputation: 10789
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnesthesiaMD View Post
There is so much pressure to bring down costs, but doctors are forced to risk everything in order to do it. Here we have a case of someone being awarded $28 million dollars because an MRI was not immediately ordered for her back pain, and it turned out to be caused by a tumor.

Yet, if we start immediately ordering MRIs on anyone who walks into our offices with back pain, we will be spending tens of millions of dollars for every ONE person that might be helped by the MRI. Quite the predicament. I see this type of thing every day in my practice. Sometimes I order the test, and sometimes I don't. But when I don't, I always have an uneasy feeling that this could come back to bite me one day.

How do we ever bring down costs when this risk is out there? And how do we remove the risk without some sort of public outcry?


I found this blog article to be very on point and accurate...



After a verdict: Doctors need to be taught a lesson. Really?
Learn the art of doing a thorough interview followed by a thorough physical assessment. Tests should be done based on the findings of the interview and exam. This is a lost art of physicians. Doctors have let bean counters dictate how much time they can take with a patient and so the doctor orders a barrage of unnecessary tests to replace a thorough physical.

Doctors need to stand up for their profession and take it back from the bean counters!
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Old 08-16-2016, 07:30 PM
 
Location: Somewhere Out West
2,287 posts, read 2,587,630 times
Reputation: 1956
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnesthesiaMD View Post
I was citing the author of the article in the OP, who was likely citing articles like this...

MRI Scans: Waiting for Public Health Care vs. Paying for a Private MRI Clinic
You are quoting a 6 year old article. That is the period of time when the Conservative Government did its best to cut funding for healthcare that was provided to the provinces. If you use more current information I believe you would see that the average wait is significantly less.
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Old 08-16-2016, 07:47 PM
 
Location: Midwest
38,496 posts, read 25,808,661 times
Reputation: 10789
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDnurse View Post
Yes, I have worked with and for older physicians. I remember one physician whom I'm certain would have found it. He NEVER missed anything. His exams were very thorough. I used to translate for him during his examinations. When I went to Nursing school I aced my assessment class without much effort: I had learned a lot from him. It's too bad he's retired now.

As far as over testing, it all depends on whose life or extremities you're talking about, doesn't it? Your life or someone else's.
I totally agree. The art of a thorough physical exam is all but gone. Also, if someone has back pain from a pelvic tumor, I would think a thorough interview about this pain would give clues that it is not just muscular.
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Old 08-16-2016, 08:23 PM
 
3,599 posts, read 6,782,668 times
Reputation: 1461
I see both sides to the medicine business.

I am mainly involved in OR and outpatient. "Non profit" hospitals run like for for profit places.

Stand a lone outpatient surgery centers owned and run by hedge funds (looks up HIG capital run by former mitt Romney buddy from Bain capital). Huge profit motive.

You got GI docs trying to be snakes and own their own path labs along with "employing" path docs along with anesthesia docs and essentially stealing professional fees from those specialities.

Than you got non profit hospitals buying up physical practices and trying to smack a bogus "facility fee" at a regular doctor visit just because docs are employed by hospital after buyout.

There is so much greed in medicine these days.

Consumers aren't innocent either. They are demanding as heck wanting everything. We got elective scheduled cases going after 7pm at community hospitals and elective cases going in after 10-11pm at trauma 2 hospitals. Consumers want that. They rather save a day off from work and schedule elective case late rather than take a vacation day.

That stuff doesn't fly with cost cutting measures in social medicine where most countries try to finish regular scheduled OR cases by 4-5pm and save only emergency cases after those hours.
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Old 08-16-2016, 09:34 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,797 posts, read 24,297,543 times
Reputation: 32935
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Enough View Post
Malpractices insurance costs are through the roof becuae of suing a doctor for every little thing that can go wrong.

They are only human and not God.
You mean like the time I was in the hospital back quite a few years ago and we still had 2-patient rooms, and the doctor amputated my roommate's leg...the wrong leg. Little things like that?
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Old 08-16-2016, 09:51 PM
 
Location: NJ/NY
18,465 posts, read 15,244,932 times
Reputation: 14335
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
You mean like the time I was in the hospital back quite a few years ago and we still had 2-patient rooms, and the doctor amputated my roommate's leg...the wrong leg. Little things like that?
One does not negate the other. Nobody is disputing the fact that there are real malpractice cases. But the fact that there are real malpractice cases does not mean there are not a lot of frivolous cases. People need to understand that bad outcomes are not the same as malpractice. You can do everything perfectly by the book, and things still go wrong.
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Old 08-16-2016, 10:43 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,797 posts, read 24,297,543 times
Reputation: 32935
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnesthesiaMD View Post
One does not negate the other. Nobody is disputing the fact that there are real malpractice cases. But the fact that there are real malpractice cases does not mean there are not a lot of frivolous cases. People need to understand that bad outcomes are not the same as malpractice. You can do everything perfectly by the book, and things still go wrong.
Naturally. But I've seen some pretty sloppy medicine even by well-thought-of, award-winning doctors. And the problem...I think...is conveyor belt medicine. I, the patient, shouldn't have to catch doctor's mistakes.
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Old 08-17-2016, 03:48 AM
 
10,719 posts, read 20,294,643 times
Reputation: 10021
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnesthesiaMD View Post
There is so much pressure to bring down costs, but doctors are forced to risk everything in order to do it. Here we have a case of someone being awarded $28 million dollars because an MRI was not immediately ordered for her back pain, and it turned out to be caused by a tumor.

Yet, if we start immediately ordering MRIs on anyone who walks into our offices with back pain, we will be spending tens of millions of dollars for every ONE person that might be helped by the MRI. Quite the predicament. I see this type of thing every day in my practice. Sometimes I order the test, and sometimes I don't. But when I don't, I always have an uneasy feeling that this could come back to bite me one day.

How do we ever bring down costs when this risk is out there? And how do we remove the risk without some sort of public outcry?

I found this blog article to be very on point and accurate...



After a verdict: Doctors need to be taught a lesson. Really?
This is the real reason for the increased cost of healthcare. As a result of these types of lawsuits, doctors and hospitals practice defensive medicine. Defensive medicine means ordering unnecessary testing and performing procedures to protect themselves against litigation. There used to be something called the Standard of Care. If doctors held to that, they would not be held liable. In this case, the standard of care is not to routinely order MRI's on 17 year olds. Statistically, there are many more common causes of back pain in a 17 year old so a doctor cannot reasonably have been expected to order an MRI

Defensive medical practices are difficult to account for so these practices are not accounted for in most analyses as to the cost of healthcare. Doctors and Hospitals need protection against frivolous lawsuits especially when the standard of care was being practiced.

But rest assured as a result of this case, ER's are going to start routinely ordering more MRI's for every young teenager that complains of back pain. As a result of this 28 million dollar lawsuit, we are going to cost the taxpayers of hundreds of millions of dollars more in unnecessary MRI's. I am a cardiologist and I would say 90% of the chest pain cases I get consulted for are due to acid reflux and anxiety. If the emergency room and internal medicine doctors were allowed to practice medicine with some protections in place, they could send those patients home. But now, those patients all require a 12 hour observation stay and a stress test in the morning. That just cost the taxpayer 10,000.

Universal tort reform and caps on punitive damages should be mandatory in all states. They talk about single payer health care in Europe. Well in Europe, they also have Loser Pays to prevent frivolous lawsuits from being filed knowing the plaintiff is required to automatically pay the defendants legals bills in the event they lose the suit.
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