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Old 09-26-2016, 02:23 PM
 
Location: deafened by howls of 'racism!!!'
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this is a good 5-part series for those interested in this stuff.

First Peoples | PBS

 
Old 09-26-2016, 02:28 PM
 
19,966 posts, read 7,883,785 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Actually, it is. There are no differences that get in the way of treating each other as if we were all the same. Look at all the mixed couples, all it takes is for people to get to know each other on a personal basis and they will notice how close we all are.
That's what you say today on the west coast of Europe. Not what world history from antiquity to present says.
 
Old 09-26-2016, 02:38 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,759,378 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtl1 View Post
That's what you say today on the west coast of Europe. Not what world history from antiquity to present says.
Colonialism for instance happened because people had no clue of genes, science, etc. All whites saw was people who LOOKED very different from themselves, so they jumped to conclusions.
And you can also find a lot of hate even between people who are all but the same, think of the genocide in Rwanda or the situation in Northern Ireland.
It's about the clan mentality that still lingers in many people's heads. They are desperately trying to invent a group they belong to and distinguish themselves from outsiders.
 
Old 09-26-2016, 02:44 PM
 
20,728 posts, read 19,377,191 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
That is not the case. Species are defined as different enough not to be able to reliably procreate. Tell me two different species that are closer than any two humans as different as say a Sudanese and a Swede.
An interesting question.

A zebra and a horse are functionally quite similar but they produce hybrids when they mate . Same with big cats like Tiger and Lion. However its not too objective so say which is more similar. If you take sea mammals and fish they tend to have similarities as a physiological reaction to the environment like a dorsal fin.
 
Old 09-26-2016, 02:58 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
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Lions and tigers are a whole lot further apart than any human people as "different" as Eskimos and San, which is why the latter two will have perfectly healthy and fertile offspring with each other, unlike those cat species.

What many people seem to think of is similar looks. But looks can deceive. That is why a whale is infinitely closer to humans than to any fish.
 
Old 09-26-2016, 03:16 PM
 
19,966 posts, read 7,883,785 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Colonialism for instance happened because people had no clue of genes, science, etc. All whites saw was people who LOOKED very different from themselves, so they jumped to conclusions
Absolutely not. They came to a different people and saw an undeveloped society. No needed for a genetic or scientific tests to sense differences. Europeans didn't think E Asians as particularly less than them anymore than Asians saw the Europeans that way. But every group naturally favors its own.

People are lookist within their group and without their group. What makes a liberal the authority on deciding on what human nature is and isn't valid. Are you like religious leaders?


Quote:
And you can also find a lot of hate even between people who are all but the same, think of the genocide in Rwanda or the situation in Northern Ireland.
It's about the clan mentality that still lingers in many people's heads. They are desperately trying to invent a group they belong to and distinguish themselves from outsiders.
The Rwanda genocide was an ethnic conflict and a power struggle. The Irish vs British thing was more of religious and political power struggle. England had a Civil War around the time of the colonization of America of the King vs the Parliament too. Of course people are tribal and clannish and struggle over power. But why purposely increase strife by forcing ethnics all together?
 
Old 09-26-2016, 03:27 PM
 
20,728 posts, read 19,377,191 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Lions and tigers are a whole lot further apart than any human people as "different" as Eskimos and San,
In what way?

Quote:
which is why the latter two will have perfectly healthy and fertile offspring with each other, unlike those cat species.

Well yeah that's the point. Humans breed true but have a lot of genetic variability. Horses and Zebra have far more similar cultural habits than an Inuit vs an Ethiopian . .


Quote:
What many people seem to think of is similar looks. But looks can deceive. That is why a whale is infinitely closer to humans than to any fish.
That's the very point again. There is a lot of similarity between a shark and porpoise in their psychical reaction to the environment, even though they could not be more different biologically Its the same reason botanists use flowers and not leaves as the most reliable way to identify a plant. The pressure to adapt to the environment is greater than the pressure to change the mean of reproduction. So a pea plant will have pea flowers long after its stems and leaves show vast differences. There is almost no difference between a black locust flower and clover flower. One is a prairie plant and another is a large tree.
 
Old 09-26-2016, 03:35 PM
 
20,728 posts, read 19,377,191 times
Reputation: 8293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Colonialism for instance happened because people had no clue of genes, science, etc. All whites saw was people who LOOKED very different from themselves, so they jumped to conclusions.
And you can also find a lot of hate even between people who are all but the same, think of the genocide in Rwanda or the situation in Northern Ireland.
It's about the clan mentality that still lingers in many people's heads. They are desperately trying to invent a group they belong to and distinguish themselves from outsiders.

This looks like the prologue to a Disney Cartoon. Colonialism did not happen because people thought Indians were lessor. In the fight over Florida , the Spanish and the French treated each other far worse than they did the Amerindians . Even the Spanish, the most ruthless of them, would tend to persecute the Indians typically because of food shortages. It was an extortion racket. Sooner or later the Indians would revolt from the parasitic European presence and then the usual tit for tat reprisals. If they got a hold of the French , they executed them to a man.
 
Old 09-26-2016, 03:44 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,759,378 times
Reputation: 9728
Two animals are not similar just because they look similar or behave in a similar way. I am genetically (i.e. internally, not in superficial terms) more similar to some Africans or Asians than to fellow Europeans, although looks might suggest that's impossible. But organ transplants for instance say otherwise.

The difference between humans are only superficial ones, namely looks and culture, which is not even innate. Same as with dog breeds. A poodle and a doberman look very different, yet they are genetically extremely close.

Horses and Zebras are genetically more different than any two humans living today. Culture is irrelevant as it is just learned. A Sudanese growing up in Sweden among Swedes will end up being be a Swede in every respect except looks.

The genetic bandwidth within a species may be broad, but it is still much less than between two similar species.

For a long time people thought chimps and bonobos were the same species because they look so similar., but now we know they are completely different species, with different sub-species even.
 
Old 09-26-2016, 03:53 PM
 
19,966 posts, read 7,883,785 times
Reputation: 6556
You are confusing genetic diversity at single gene points with genetic group clustering. The multi-location gene differences and clustering is what creates genetic groups.
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