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In Mondragon Corporation the plant supervisor goes to the line workers and inquires regularly what the workers find would be helpful to them in doing their work, and then that info is taken back to top management for implementation. And you say the workers have no control.
What makes you think that doesn't happen elsewhere? I spent many years working for manufacturing companies, first as a technician, then field service and eventually worked my way into the Marketing/Sales department. Management was always interested in the ideas of all employees to make things work better. That's what makes for a successful company.
You act as though that is something unique with this company you cited. It isn't.
Why when someone says the horror world "Venezuela" someone else replies "Scandinavia"? What does the Nordic Countries have to do with a failed 3rd world country? Nothing. It's not even comparing apples with oranges, it's comparing Jupiter with an elephant.
First of all, the Scandinavian countries are not socialist, and never have been. All the quotes from that 'new american' blog are complete BS, and this is coming from one who has lived and paid taxes all his life in one of those said countries.
The Scandinavian countries are free-market capitalist and individualistic countries who have implemented some socialistic ideas into capitalism. Yes, it's possible to combine them. This region in Northern Europe was one of the most miserable backwards and poor regions of Europe in 1800. Today they are among the richest, happiest, most innovative, safest and prosperous countries not only in Europe, but in the world.
This was not achieved by collectivising the economy or by social ownership, but to encourage free market, free trade, cut needless bureaucracy, individual freedom and innovation with having the small populace as educated as possible. Big government was needed in some places, as to ensure the possibility of opportunity. But this is not necessary socialism, it may be called democracy - everyone should at least in utopian thinking to have the same possibilities in life. This is naturally not completely true, but the social mobility is much higher than in the US. So maybe the American Dream in the 21th century is the Scandinavian Dream?
The strive to make people more equal has indeed raised taxes, but election after election after election the people in these countries vote for this system. One may ask why? Because the people have noticed that the system works. They are not giving up liberty for safety and equality, they pay it with money. And this is not for altruistic reasons, but for selfish ones. I pay taxes quite gladly not because it's better for some obscure guy in another city, but because it's better for me! When a person sends his 7-yo daughter alone to school on public transport without even the slightest fear that someone would do her any harm, the person knows paying taxes is worth it.
Another feature of the system is that you benefit and contribute for it in various phases of your life. From day one to the time you graduate you're a benefitter (free education, free or low-cost healthcare, child benefits, subsidised student housing), when you work a full-time job and are in the middle-class you are a net contributer (taxes), but when you retire you are again a benefitter (pensions, elderly subsidised healthcare). Knowing this makes it reasonable to pay a bit more VAT or income tax. And those taxes you paid, a part of it ensures that also your kids will get free education. Not so that some trailer trash kid gets it, but your kids. So, you can happily spend your savings on a boat, summer house or hookers and coke if you fancy, because you don't have to save up for a college fund. Again, selfish reasons.
Many times heard: "Sanders supporters are lazy and want everything for free". Well, a part of the big government in this aspect is to ensure that nobody misuses the system. The requirements to get social subsidies are strict, you have to do everything in your power to try to get employment, and the subsidies aren't really that big. They are only a little more than having the necessity to dig in dumpsters or mug some old lady on the street. And believe me, if the government pays you subsidises you don't deserve, they will notice, and they will come after you. I've noticed it myself when got student subsidises without aquiring enough credits. And those bastards even demanded interest!
This system doesn't mean either that you can't get rich or keep your wealth. A study in Sweden showed that those who were rich in 1900, most of their ancestors are still rich. Why? Because it's not a sin to be rich, and nobody is coming to take your wealth from you. (Ok, a small piece goes to inheritance taxes.)
I'm not saying that this system is perfect, it isn't, but what I do know is that nothing I said since the word 'elephant' applies to Venezuela. It's a broken cleptocratic and thoroughly corrupt country collapsing by hampering all economic growth, riddled with crime, poverty and terrible economic policies. It has failed on so many levels that it's impossible to put it in some ideological framework.
TL;DR: Scandinavia is individualist capitalist with a pinch of socialism, Venezuela is a train wreck. And BTW, if you have to necessarily try to compare Venezuela with an European country, try Greece or Portugal. They are far more socialist, rigid, bureaucratic, collectivist, corrupt, nepotist and difficult to do business in than any of the Nordic Countries.
Great post-but many of these "America is the best at everything" people never let facts get in the way of a good argument. I get that a lot too when I talk about how much I prefer Australia. They go on about how much more "free" America is than other countries. America sucks majorly, but no one wants to admit it
Yes, I read it and I absorbed it. Apparently you didn't. You asked "why do socialist governments almost always fail?" Governments are not economies.
Arieta posted about economies as they exist. Socialist governments are trying to work toward socialism by beginning with a capitalist economy and socialist-type programs. And there are lots more than I listed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_socialist_states
Read the column on the right - "Constitutional Statement."
Scandinavian-Americans live longer and are wealthier than Scandinavians. Only advantage they have is demographics.
Any people of color nations doing better than the USA?
Norway's population is ~15% immigrant born and that immigration and immigration birth rates is fueling their growth since 2000 as the native birth rate wasn't at replacement level. This trend is happening across Northern Europe and frankly all of the western developed world.
What do you mean by better? Japan and S. Korea beat us in quite a few metrics. In fact, Asian Americans outperform their white counterpart. However, Japan and S. Korea's exclusiveness comes with it's own set of problems, mainly how is the country going to be able to function in 20-30 years without that supply of younger workers.
Please, the valid point is that those who claim to be socialists have throughout history turned out to be ruthless dictators once they got power,
The fact is people have a strong desire to control their own economic destiny and socialism denies them of that control. It takes ruthless dictators to enforce "socialism".
What is truly laughable is after a century of failures socialists do not recognize this.
Creeping fascism works better. Let people think they still have some control outside the group.
Then the issue isn't socialism, but the "wickedness of man".
Apparently, not. Your posts indicate there's a LOT of facts you haven't even been paying attention to. Just two to name a couple:
1) European and Scandinavian countries tax regressively instead of progressively and consequently have MUCH lower income inequality due to the basic math of the U.S. having MUCH too narrow of a federal tax base in a progressive tax system.
2) American workers and retirees have $27 Trillion invested in their pension/retirement accounts, and therefore DIRECTLY benefit from corporate profits and/or an increase in corporate share vale.
Kode thinks hes smart. But he's not as smart as he thinks he is. He has an information deficit. He really doesn't know what he's talking about.
Kode thinks hes smart. But he's not as smart as he thinks he is. He has an information deficit. He really doesn't know what he's talking about.
So then you agree with the poster InformedConsent who agrees with the poster Ariete that Venezuela isn't a good example of socialism? That country in question of the article you posted?
Yes, I read it and I absorbed it. Apparently you didn't. You asked "why do socialist governments almost always fail?" Governments are not economies.
Arieta posted about economies as they exist. Socialist governments are trying to work toward socialism by beginning with a capitalist economy and socialist-type programs. And there are lots more than I listed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_socialist_states
Read the column on the right - "Constitutional Statement."
If that's what you believe, I'll repeat the question...
Would you be willing to implement a 20-25% VAT and a mostly flat federal income tax system (with the middle class in the top tax bracket, like they have) here in the U.S.?
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Your posts indicate there's a LOT of facts you haven't even been paying attention to. Just two to name a couple:
