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So...what's YOUR point? I was trying to put a reasoned and polite response out. Lol, yes, I know targets don't shoot back, but the pressure felt in a competitive environment is quite similar to the real thing. It's the single best way to train and condition. Controlling adrenaline is not something learned at 8 weeks in an academy. Plus, as I said, that attitude of "how often does that really happen", and thinking the odds are in your favor, is dangerous at best.
Your not talking to some armchair nut job who thinks that just having a firearm is the end all answer to every social ill. Quite the opposite, one finds that that firearm is more reason to bow out of conflicts. Often enough appearing to be the coward of the county is the best course of action for the highest number of interpersonal conflict encountered.
At any rate, training, practice, competition, are not so much to develop physical skill. 95% of handling a weapon well is mental. So, yes, a highly skilled competitive shooter has a far better chance than most cops of using a firearm properly (if at all) in any given circumstance than most cops. For a lot of reasons, chief among them being the mental edge.
So what is it that you are basing your position on here? Statistics? Things you've read or seen on documentaries? "SScientific" research? Or do you have some real world experience to draw on? The latter is where the rubber meets the road and all the former goes out the window. In reality, there is no amount of training, practice even experience that can prepare you for the real thing. It doesn't hurt to have all that to draw on, but it's NEVER like training or practice when the balloon goes up for real.
Even if someone has been in scads of different lethal engagements each one was different. Some things just can't be prepared for on every contingency that will pop up. So, you train and condition for the worst, and assume there is no best. There are no "winners" in a self defense situation. All that can be done is to be as MENTALLY prepared for a bad thing as one can be. I know far more citizens that have that burned into them than I ever have or ever will "trained" cops.
I'm getting a tone from your posts that you feel you have actual answers to all this. You dont. Nobody does. And I mean NOBODY. However, I'd rather be armed and prepared as well as can be than unarmed , unprepared at any level and being totally dependent on others. If shooting starts in a crowded place, people WILL be hurt and/or killed. Regardless of who tries to shoot back at the bad guys. Nobody is so good as to spare that from happening. But that's no reason to see everyone disarmed who may be capable of shooting back, and cower in place waiting for "trained" personnel to come to the rescue. What ifs don't factor in.
I'm retired law enforcement. My husband and I both own guns, he is a retired Marine, he served in combat & was a member of the USMC Pistol Team We own guns...a lot of guns. Contrary to your repeated claim that I want to disarm people neither of us want to take anyone's guns away, but the second anyone disagrees with you even a tiny bit you try to throw that out so there's clearly no way that I can have a rational discussion with you.
i have never been in a situtaion where I needed a gun, but every house in my neghorhood has guns so we are not anti gun by no means. Instead of trying to take guns away from honest law abiding people, and pass laws that effect law abiding people. why not attack the people that commit crimes with guns. like death penalty for any crime done with a gun in procession. rob a bank with gun, death, rape with gun, death. robbery with gun, death, car jacking with partner with gun, both death
control the crimnal, and best way to keep a repeat, death
I'm retired law enforcement. My husband and I both own guns, he is a retired Marine, he served in combat & was a member of the USMC Pistol Team We own guns...a lot of guns. Contrary to your repeated claim that I want to disarm people neither of us want to take anyone's guns away, but the second anyone disagrees with you even a tiny bit you try to throw that out so there's clearly no way that I can have a rational discussion with you.
Then you know that many cops could not hit the side of a barn, if they were in the barn. I spent a tour In Vietnam, so I have shot at live targets who were shooting back. when I go to the range, most of the civilians can outshoot the cops easily. In my area, most cops only go to the range the required once a year. Most of the civilian regulars are there at least twice a month. My shooting qualification for my CCW was harder than the test the cops take. Most cops don't seem to have any idea where their shots are going, they just shoot as many rounds as they can hoping to hit the subject. My brother is a LEO and he is a terrible shot.
Not sure what that has to do with what I said...my husband and I both own guns, I just get tired of the BS in some of these threads with people talking about fighting off large numbers of attackers by themselves. I have absolutely no problem with responsible gun ownership, I am a gun owner.
The 2.5 - 3 million number came from a telephone survey of 5,000 people who were asked if they had ever used a gun defensively so someone stating that "I heard a noise so I went outside with my gun and they must have run off when they saw me" would count as a DGU incident. The truth is we don't have any good statistics on DGU, some researchers have estimated a much lower number in the range of 108,000-500,000 annually
Once again, I will remind you my husband and I both own guns and I am in no way advocating that anyone take your guns away, but reading some of these comments makes you think it's silly season.
My point is that being attacked by multiple assailants isn't the stuff of legend. It happens. More often than not when faced with armed resistance the strata clears flee but I would count on that.
All smack talk aside, these ARE valid points, but IDK, if totally eliminating BGC for all gun purchases in a nation as large, diverse, and violent as America is a good idea. What safeguards can be in place to eliminate the truly dangerous people from buying a gun? I know you can't stop them all, but to make ita free for all may make things worse IDK
For one we place harsh punishments on crimes committed with guns and violent felons in possession of a firearm. Beyond that anything we propose must be constitutional or otherwise lobby for a change in the second amendment.
How many times have you actually had to fight off multiple attackers? Paranoid much?
How many times you've been in a car accident where if you haven't buckled your seatbelt you would've died? Paranoid much? To answer your question I've never been in that situation but it doesn't hurt to prepare. Being prepared doesn't mean you're paranoid.
How many times does that actually happen? Also a gun is the reason why 50 gay people were murdered. Of course it does depend on the person who is possession of the gun but what are you going to do if your gun goes in the wrong hands? What if you aim wrong? Mistakes are bound to happen.
Guns was the reason that shooter didn't killed all of the people inside. He was stopped by good guys with guns. And believe it or not but a lot of CCW holders are actually better shots than most police.
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Yup this is not Call of Duty. Only people with training should be in possession of guns.
How many times does that actually happen? Also a gun is the reason why 50 gay people were murdered. Of course it does depend on the person who is possession of the gun but what are you going to do if your gun goes in the wrong hands? What if you aim wrong? Mistakes are bound to happen.
Yup this is not Call of Duty. Only people with training should be in possession of guns.
No, a gun was not the reason why 50 people were murdered, it happened because it was a gun free zone and a coward saw an easy opportunity to kill Americans without much resistance.
Don't worry about my gun going in the wrong hands, like many gun owners with concealed permits, we are trained to make sure the weapon doesn't fall into the wrong hands.
Then you know that many cops could not hit the side of a barn, if they were in the barn. I spent a tour In Vietnam, so I have shot at live targets who were shooting back. when I go to the range, most of the civilians can outshoot the cops easily. In my area, most cops only go to the range the required once a year. Most of the civilian regulars are there at least twice a month. My shooting qualification for my CCW was harder than the test the cops take. Most cops don't seem to have any idea where their shots are going, they just shoot as many rounds as they can hoping to hit the subject. My brother is a LEO and he is a terrible shot.
I'm a lousy shot, always have been, my brother was also a cop and was a terrific shot, like my husband he was on the USMC Pistol team, maybe that helps Where I worked we qualified twice a year with 70% pass. SWAT needed 90% pass rate. We also had a half-day where we watched movies about use of force and de-escalation techniques, at the end we had so show that we still remembered how to use a shotgun. (It's probably changed, it's been a while since I retired) It was definitely harder than the Nevada CCW test. , Under LEOSA retired law enforcement have to qualify to concealed carry, in Nevada it was a piece of cake, it was the same qualification as for a regular CCW and was 30 rounds 3/5/7 yards any stance, no time limit 70% pass. I haven't even bothered with qualifying since I moved back to California I'm spending too much time taking care of the chickens and the vegetable garden
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