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On the bold, as a black person, I will honestly say that for me, that white people have always had tribalism. The success of the climax of the CRM, which occurred only because of assassinations of JFK, RFK, and MLK, were basically a jab at the more violent tribalism of white America.
I have been thinking on the election from an historical perspective and as it relates to our present time. I have also discussed the election and the views of which I am about to share with my white friends/family and have spoken to a lot of my black friends/family about it.
Basically I am of the idea that a large percent of white people want to go back to their former "place" in American society. That they enjoy the idea of "equality" and "opportunity" but only if it is for them. They do not want to hear about anyone's issues but their own and were upset that Obama actually discussed these issues.
On the red, do you identify with the things that Trump said about women, about ethnic minorities (in that the Mexican American judge cannot be impartial due to him being of Mexican descent and also about how black people live in "hell" and all of our kids go to "bad schools"). Do you identify with his support of Bannon, who has mainstreamed white nationalist ideology?
IMO it is interesting that many white Americans think that they are not tribal or that they have never been tribal when you always have been. It is just that the other "tribes" in America, for the majority of our country have never had a voice. They get a voice for 50 out of the over 240 years of our country's official existence and over 400 years starting in colonial America and that is a problem to those who actually do "identify" with the information I bolded of my own comments above.
For me, it makes me view whites with much less....I can only say trust that I had for you as a demographic before. I am lucky in that I do have very close friends who are white and family members. I have shared the above with them, that this election is going to make minorities especially very mistrustful of whites. I also think that you don't care about that and that is okay with me, but that mistrust if rightfully deserved. I was discussing this very thing with a couple relatives last night. One expressed what I had been feeling, in that I am disappointed in white Americas, that you can so easily believe that when someone says racist, xenophobic things and aligns themselves with white nationalists that you think it does not look poorly on you personally and are shocked that someone would call you a "racist." It should not be a shock and especially not so if you truly "identify" with the things above.
And FWIW politics IMO are always "dirty" and I didn't expect this election season to be anything but. Things are always said that are "deplorable" in some way and that is to be expected. But I expected more of white America. I felt you had evolved as a demographic and I do still believe that the majority of white Americans have, but I feel that majority is much smaller than I previously felt it was and I will be much more suspicious of the people I work with in the future.
I grew up in the deep south. "blacks" were others when I was a kid. my grandfather was a member of the KKK. I know what racism is.
when I was a teenager, my family moved to the city where we went to a church with a mixed congregation. my parents and another led a home cell group. that other family was black. I distinctly remember walking in their home and thinking "they live just like we do". I know what prejudice is. I lived it. their kids became my best friends. it pretty much forced me to reevaluate everything I ever thought about race.
I joined the military and spent 4 years with black and white people in close quarters. we were brothers. not just on the job but when we were in town too. I have been the only white guy in a bar. I understand what it feels like to be looked at with serious hostility because of my race.
As a grown man, I live in a community with a growing east Asian population. I have sat in meetings with the principle discussing how we can go about bringing these people into the workings of the school. How to not simply make them feel comfortable, rather to be full partners on equal footing. And I have been involved in seeing that happen over a period of years.
I attend a church that has no majority group but the largest ethinc/race is African American. I am raising my kids in that environment on purpose. And it is wonderful. So I think im pretty comfortable with my own understanding of race.
You are wrong about what the majority of white people want. What we want is for race to no longer be a political football. We keep hearing people talk about some national conversation, but any time any one of us were to actually speak from our perspective, we will find ourselves being labeled racists. There is no perspective different from mia culpa that is acceptable.
Please remember that Hillary got beat because white people that voted for Mr. Obama... twice... voted for Trump in PA and WI and MI.
White republicans are dying to see African Americans take a look at the polices and join the republican ranks. Tim Scott is elected in a Southern State by white Republicans. The vast majority of black politicians represent black majority communities... on the democrat side not the republican side.
Explain how resentment over others getting government help doesn't mean that tRump voters think they should be getting that help instead.
Thanks!
Why, thank you for asking! Our schools could use some help - I think in certain parts of the country in particular, they should raise the pay scale of the teachers, and where needed, raise the standards of the
teachers.
Cops need to be retrained, and psychologically tested by an impartial third party each year. Too many nut jobs are attracted by the shiny badge and gun and have little man syndrome.
Our veterans hospitals - some are good and some are atrocious. It's pathetic how we've treated those who have served.
We've got people living on the streets we're not doing anything about, and many of them are mentally ill, but I'm unaware of any care being offered to them.
We keep bringing more people into the country, despite the fact that some here still don't have jobs. Personally, I think this low unemployment rate isn't accurate.
As for handouts, I've said more than once that people needing welfare and food stamps and other programs should be put into two categories - those who are having a temporary situation in life where they have a need for those things, and those who are simply unemployable. I'd rather see tax exemptions given to companies willing to take in some of the unemployable and teach them something so they are employable. And I'd like to see some trade education at the high school level. Attendance should be a requirement for that group. You don't go to work or school to learn, you're not getting your welfare check. If you're not going because you have a drug problem, let the system funnel you into a program so you can get help.
Handouts just make people dependent on handouts, it doesn't give them a skill so they can hopefully go throughout life not needing a handout again.
Poverty is the biggest reason small towns are experiencing an epidemic of heroin addiction and also an epidemic of hiv/aids due to dirty needles being shared. The only difference between rural and urban poverty is you don't see people in rural areas shooting one another due to turf wars or whatever the reason is.
Our government has turned its back on our own problems in an attempt to help everyone else. That's what I was referring to.
Explain how resentment over others getting government help doesn't mean that tRump voters think they should be getting that help instead.
Thanks!
Full disclosure, my lengthy post is not reflective of most Trump supporters, I don't think. I'm all over the board with my politics. So you may view my ideas as a continuation of handouts. I don't, but we can agree to disagree there, just don't think what I'm saying is a reflection of most Trump supporters. I don't think it is.
On the red, do you identify with the things that Trump said about women, about ethnic minorities (in that the Mexican American judge cannot be impartial due to him being of Mexican descent and also about how black people live in "hell" and all of our kids go to "bad schools"). Do you identify with his support of Bannon, who has mainstreamed white nationalist ideology?
.
to deal directly with your questions. Our issue isn't simply answers to your questions. Our issue is how we perceived what happened and what that means.
Trump certainly did talk about that judge. He did suggest the guy could not be impartial. but there is a lot more to that story. The judge is an activist working to legalize illegal aliens. He had a case involving Trump in his court with Trump talking about illegals. Its a valid point. even if Trumps tweet was harsh.
"What Trump has said about women". What I know about Mr. Trump is what he DID. What he DOES. I know he said some crude things. I don't know any guy that hasn't. my sisters all say they don't know any women that haven't talked rather pointedly crude as well. Now what I know about what Trump has done is, he has more female executives than male and he pays them on par.
Mr. Trump was not speaking about all black people when eh said blacks live in hell. He was talking about the hellish reality of minority poor communities and he was/is right. AND his point was he intends to do something about it. As for the schools in those communities... well my dad taught in an inner city Dallas school. years later, a guy began to come to my church that was one of his students. My dad and this man agree that that school was a pretty rough place. So yes. these schools in these minority neighborhoods have been neglected and that needs to be fixed.
AS for Bannon, he has not mainstreamed white nationalist ideology. that's just ridiculous. He has attempted to use Brightbart to explain alt right, but that is in no way a stamp of approval. if you think otherwise, you need to post some comments he has made. You cant because they don't exist.
He is not anti-Semitic. At least his Chief Counsel who is Jewish and very religiously observant says he isn't. He isn't anti-gay. If he was Milo Yanopolis wouldn't have a platform at Breitbart.
we just doint agree on your questions my friend. I just wish we could agree to find a way forward where we could trust each other and work to get resolution and reconciliation. instead we have one party that loves identity politics and uses it as a baseball bat to beat down the other party.
What are you talking about? We've been living in racial harmony and black people have been flourishing over the last eight years.
Please point to any racial civil unrest over the last eight years.
I know right!
I've come to the realization that CD is a black hole where millions of individual realities are being sucked in. Half the people in here seem to live in a bubble while they explain reality to the people who live in reality.
It's a stunning example (or regurgitation) of how things were during the Tudor era. The people at the top had no clue how things were to the common man. Now, here we are again only it is the political class with their progressive army of useful idiots doing the exact same thing!
AFAIAC, the left can continue to make complete fools of themselves as they act like the spoiled "what's in for me" snowflakes they are.
Originally Posted by Ferd White republicans are dying to see African Americans take a look at the polices and join the republican ranks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OotsaPootsa
According to you. Unless you have some kind of evidence beyond your opinion, that's all it is.
Trump, "the racist", doubled Romney in blacks and Hispanics. THAT is a good start. The most blacks voting for a Republican since 2000.
If he starts lifting their boats through smart policies, his nationalist perception will only grow. Trump could literally wipe out the Democrats base through proper management. He doesn't need to do anything but do what he does best.
According to you. Unless you have some kind of evidence beyond your opinion, that's all it is.
You really don't think that the majority of white Righties would rather work with black folks rather than continue this racial tension? This situation isn't fun for anyone involved. Lefties haven't done anything for black folks, so why not try something new for a change?
Interesting statement here..."Furthermore, the ever-present drumbeat from the Left that every conservative victory is the death throes of bad, old white people who are about to be swept away by waves of brown immigration is making many whites dig in."
It's a demographic reality. The aging white population can dig in, but soon they'll be plowed under.
Very soon, racist whites who called Hispanics insulting names and marginalized them are going to wish they'd accepted the fact that many Hispanic people are white and treated them accordingly, I imagine.
You really don't think that the majority of white Righties would rather work with black folks rather than continue this racial tension? This situation isn't fun for anyone involved. Lefties haven't done anything for black folks, so why not try something new for a change?
What I "think" is immaterial.
Let's focus on reality.
That means you bring facts to the table, or you can just post opinions and hope that will convince others.
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