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Old 12-26-2016, 10:14 AM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
14,848 posts, read 8,222,350 times
Reputation: 4590

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
Business the same. But as business is so much less complicated than gov't, some can just about only do good. Like my medical practice/office. Anything we do that is or turns out bad, is either bad luck or judgement on mine or my staffs part. Something that does not happen often. But we exist as a business only to do good. My builder, plumber, barber, shuttle ride driver and landscaper the same. IMO and long experience with these people/businesses.

No man wants to imagine himself as evil. You cannot live with yourself if you honestly believed you were evil.

Humans have an amazing ability to convince themselves of the virtue of all their acts, even when it is obvious to everyone else that their acts are anything but virtuous.


Look at it like this, if your business, or if a government, truly existed to do good, think of all the good things you/it could be doing right now. Obviously there are limits to both your business' charity, and likewise with government.


Ultimately, your business exists to turn a profit. If it didn't turn a profit, regardless of whatever good intentions you might otherwise have, it would cease to exist. If a government didn't turn a profit, it would likewise cease to exist.


If your business truly existed only to do good, couldn't you charge less for your services? Couldn't you give them away entirely?



It doesn't matter if men truly want to do good, they will always and forever come up against the forces of nature itself. A government which existed only to do good, would die. And a business which existed only to do good, would die.


It reminds me of this quote by Adam Smith...

"It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest."

https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/q...ith136391.html


So please, get off your high-horse, you're just as selfish and greedy as the rest of us.
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Old 12-26-2016, 10:20 AM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
14,848 posts, read 8,222,350 times
Reputation: 4590
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
They run our city for its people. A necessary service. Police and fire protection other necessary services. Help support and run our schools. Senior services. Transportation. Yes help promote, sustain and secure our economy. I can think of no wrongs.
That is because you don't even know what "good" is.

Do you think everyone else in your city believes that your government does no wrong?


Do you think regressive taxation, for the sake of economic growth, is wrong? Do you think laws which make it illegal to be homeless, are wrong? Do you think creating special codes and laws, which drive up prices, and push people into poverty, dependence, and despair, are wrong?


Have you ever even thought about the real effects of many of these laws, which exist to "promote your economy", and how they affect regular people, especially the poor?


I advise you to take a closer look at everything your government does before you go rambling about its virtue.


Any informed man knows that government is a necessary evil, but an evil nonetheless. You can only justify its evils, by saying that the alternative would be an even greater evil. Or simply, that the end justifies the means.


That is what politics should actually be called, "The end justifies the means". Because that is forever what it is.
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Old 12-26-2016, 10:42 AM
 
18,848 posts, read 8,500,721 times
Reputation: 4141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
No man wants to imagine himself as evil. You cannot live with yourself if you honestly believed you were evil.

Humans have an amazing ability to convince themselves of the virtue of all their acts, even when it is obvious to everyone else that their acts are anything but virtuous.


Look at it like this, if your business, or if a government, truly existed to do good, think of all the good things you/it could be doing right now. Obviously there are limits to both your business' charity, and likewise with government.


Ultimately, your business exists to turn a profit. If it didn't turn a profit, regardless of whatever good intentions you might otherwise have, it would cease to exist. If a government didn't turn a profit, it would likewise cease to exist.


If your business truly existed only to do good, couldn't you charge less for your services? Couldn't you give them away entirely?



It doesn't matter if men truly want to do good, they will always and forever come up against the forces of nature itself. A government which existed only to do good, would die. And a business which existed only to do good, would die.


It reminds me of this quote by Adam Smith...

"It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest."

https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/q...ith136391.html


So please, get off your high-horse, you're just as selfish and greedy as the rest of us.
I am already rich and so less 'greedy' than I was when poorer.

Having limits is reality, not evil.

If I don't profit, I quit. Not evil, just another limit.

Charging for services is not evil, as it keeps me in business to do more good.

Sure I look out for my interests, but I can also do good.
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Old 12-26-2016, 10:47 AM
 
18,848 posts, read 8,500,721 times
Reputation: 4141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
That is because you don't even know what "good" is.

Do you think everyone else in your city believes that your government does no wrong?


Do you think regressive taxation, for the sake of economic growth, is wrong? Do you think laws which make it illegal to be homeless, are wrong? Do you think creating special codes and laws, which drive up prices, and push people into poverty, dependence, and despair, are wrong?


Have you ever even thought about the real effects of many of these laws, which exist to "promote your economy", and how they affect regular people, especially the poor?


I advise you to take a closer look at everything your government does before you go rambling about its virtue.


Any informed man knows that government is a necessary evil, but an evil nonetheless. You can only justify its evils, by saying that the alternative would be an even greater evil. Or simply, that the end justifies the means.


That is what politics should actually be called, "The end justifies the means". Because that is forever what it is.
I would imagine that we have people/libertarians in our town not wanting gov't.

I would imagine that when on occasion there has been some sort of screw up, that someone in our town might feel slighted or wronged. This is not happening on any regular basis to assume any evil intent or pattern.

Our taxes are low, and budget sensible. I have not heard otherwise from anyone. Although many retired think we spend too much on our schools.

We take care of our poor. And I see no way that promoting our economy harms them in any way.
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Old 12-26-2016, 11:05 AM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
14,848 posts, read 8,222,350 times
Reputation: 4590
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
I would imagine that when on occasion there has been some sort of screw up, that someone in our town might feel slighted or wronged. This is not happening on any regular basis to assume any evil intent or pattern.
I never assume evil intentions from absolutely anyone. Everyone convinces themselves that whatever they want to do, is not only good for them, but good for everyone else as well.

Even to the extent that certain acts might seem on the surface to be ethically-questionable, they will always justify their actions as being necessary, and thus good.


Everyone imagines that they have good intentions. Those who you disagree with, those who you detest, even your biggest enemy, imagines that they have good intentions.


Your problem is, you can see in others, and throughout history, all the evil that was done in the name of good intentions. But, because of your inability to see anything other than from your own perspective, and only from the inside, you are incapable of seeing those same flaws in yourself.


Do you believe you are the height of civilization? Do you think posterity will look back upon you, and your city, favorably? Do you think your ancestors even look upon you favorably?


As long as you continue to blind yourself to reality, there is nothing I can do for you.


"The Care and Labour of providing for Artificial and Fashionable Wants, the sight of so many rich wallowing in Superfluous plenty, whereby so many are kept poor and distressed for Want, the Insolence of Office . . . and restraints of Custom, all contrive to disgust [the Indians] with what we call civil Society." - Benjamin Franklin

Benjamin Franklin: Remarks Concerning the Savages of North America
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Old 12-26-2016, 11:15 AM
 
18,848 posts, read 8,500,721 times
Reputation: 4141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post

Do you believe you are the height of civilization? Do you think posterity will look back upon you, and your city, favorably? Do you think your ancestors even look upon you favorably?

No. Yes. Yes. Yes.
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Old 12-26-2016, 11:16 AM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
14,848 posts, read 8,222,350 times
Reputation: 4590
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
We take care of our poor. And I see no way that promoting our economy harms them in any way.
Take care of the poor in what way exactly?

Do they think that you are taking good care of them?
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Old 12-26-2016, 11:18 AM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
14,848 posts, read 8,222,350 times
Reputation: 4590
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
No. Yes. Yes. Yes.
When did posterity ever look at back at any generation favorably? And when did any previous generation look at future generations favorably?


I'm beginning to think you're just being silly.



"Every generation imagines itself to be more intelligent than the one that went before it, and wiser than the one that comes after it." - George Orwell

Quote by George Orwell:


The truth is, in a hundred years, or two-hundred years, the people of the world will look back at us as savages.
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Old 12-26-2016, 11:24 AM
 
8,104 posts, read 3,966,995 times
Reputation: 3070
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post


“I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies.” –Thomas Jefferson

Quote:
The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in past centuries.

David Rockefeller

List of Goldman Sachs employees in the White House
List of Goldman Sachs employees in the White House

The line between politicians and banks in this country is non existent
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Old 12-26-2016, 11:36 AM
 
18,848 posts, read 8,500,721 times
Reputation: 4141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
Take care of the poor in what way exactly?

Do they think that you are taking good care of them?
We do via Federal, state, county and city gov't benefits. And we do as a community of caring people and organizations.
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