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Yes to me it's no different than when someone has called me "delusional" for the feelings I have experienced in my life.
It's like how I've never seen a ghost but I wouldn't call someone else delusional for seeing one. I don't know if ghosts are real or not but I'd rather give someone the benefit of the doubt.
I guess it adds to it but Medicaid pays for a lot of things that they shouldn't. They pay for antibiotics all the time when it often just makes the person sicker. Not to mention the worst part is they force you to buy probiotics and all these herbs to clean your system of the damage it has done. This is a subject for another thread but my point was it's less taxing on us than what's already happening. I think they can afford to pay for a gender reassignment surgery if they get rid of the useless toxins that they pay for.
Also Medicaid pays for therapy for loads of people so it'd be no different than therapy because it helps the person's health. Besides how many times would someone ask for this particular surgery? That's the difference between that and plastic surgery. A lot of women would get plastic surgery but not a lot of people in this world are transgendered. They're an even smaller population than gay people.
No. Gender reassignment surgery is not like being on antibiotics. If someone wants gender reassignment surgery bad enough, they can get a job and pay for it. I don't think tax payers should pay to make a woman out of a person with xy chromosomes nor to make a man out of a person who has xx chromosomes.
A person should be free to feel and act as they wish without impending upon the same freedom of others. Forcing others to act against thier personal beliefs or natural rational reactions is doing just that.
So if I felt like a Robin but my parents named me something else, people wouldn't have to call me Robin even though I legally changed my name?
However well if that's true then society needs to at least be consistent. People force me to act against my beliefs all the time. For example I don't believe in allopathic medicine in general at least not for myself but doctors force it on me. I am literally offered no alternative because I'm on free insurance so it's either get sick try and treat myself or take the medicine that could possibly make me sicker. I don't believe in any of that. I believe more in seeking a doctor with my beliefs.
Also I'm constantly told if I want to get a job I have to lie but I don't believe in that so much that I literally can't do it well but I am forced to try because any time I am honest I don't get hired. At best I have to say "it was nice to meet you" even though I know I'm being fake as crap.
This is far more damaging than calling someone a different gender as it has affected my physical health as well as mental.
I really don't see the big deal because it's just a pronoun/name. It's not like you have to consider a person nice when they're an ahole. In fact you don't even have to believe that they are that gender but you should call them the pronoun they believe they are.
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It is included to highlight the irresponsibility of pretending someone is something other than they are, simply to avoid "hurt feelings".
It's not just about "hurt feelings" persay. It's about respecting the transgendered person's beliefs. By saying that you don't think the person is really the other gender, that invalidates them. Some of them might start to believe you and then think they don't belong in this world. I guess technically you can call them anything you want. You can call them a freak too but does that mean you should?
Gender is a societal concept. When the first woman and man came about into this earth, I'm pretty sure someone just automatically decided the woman is a woman and the man is a man. There was no scientists back then to tell them "boys have a penis and girls have a vagina" so how did they know a woman was a woman and a man was a man?
Transgender people have a right to be what they want to be..
Anybody can pretend to be whatever they want but at the same time they need to expect that other will not support their choice and when they start demanding others treat them with respect they may not get it.
Laws can be changed just like judges can be replace. If a conservative government controls the majority of power in the judicial and congress branch of government, then conservative policies should be implement and all progressive laws revoke or modified. Laws should be design to prevent same sex marriages and not recognize transgender or provide any support to such deviant undesirables.
By saying that you don't think the person is really the other gender, that invalidates them.
What does this mean, "invalidates them?" It is not any other human's responsibility to "validate" my existence.
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Originally Posted by Nickchick
Some of them might start to believe you and then think they don't belong in this world.
Why would these folks let what others say or think dictate this?
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Originally Posted by Nickchick
Gender is a societal concept.
Pink as a girl's color is an arbitrary societal concept. The fact that humans reproduce sexually means that by its very nature DNA codes for an egg carrier and incubator (female) and a sperm shooter (male). We exist as vessels for genes to express and pass themselves along. Our purpose is procreation.
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Originally Posted by Nickchick
When the first woman and man came about into this earth...
Let me stop you there and recommend you pick up The Magic of Reality by Dawkins. In it, he does a wonderful job of going backwards through all of our ancestors all the way to our microbial great (x10^15) grandparents.. There were no "first woman and man."
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Originally Posted by Nickchick
...how did they know a woman was a woman and a man was a man?
It's hard to even know how to answer that. But let me put it to you this way: it's an INNATE sense. Further, when language was first developing among hominids, though they certainly lacked the necessary critical analysis skills and built-up knowledge to accurately understand much of what happened in their world, they did possess a keen ability (which I fear we're now losing) to see what was right in front of their eyes.
Last edited by Nepenthe; 01-11-2017 at 08:01 PM..
Reason: couple typos
I read an article recently about a condition called apotemnophilia. Basically, this is someone that isn't content with their bodies and want to have an otherwise healthy limb amputated. If someone goes to a doctor with this condition, requesting an amputation, the common "treatment" is to refer them to a psychiatrist. Contrast that with someone that wants to have a "chopadictomy" and they're placated. (I tried to find a link to the article but couldn't find it).
Bottom line, having a "sex change" doesn't change anything. Having a "chopadictomy" or an "addadictomy" is just body mutilation.
You either have a Y chromosome or you don't, can't have an operation to change that.
So if I felt like a Robin but my parents named me something else, people wouldn't have to call me Robin even though I legally changed my name?
Processes and norms regarding proper names have little to nothing to do with your topic or point. Common nouns are the topic at hand as they are the the nouns taught and used across an entire culture or society to generally describe a person place or thing.
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However well if that's true then society needs to at least be consistent.
Agreed.
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People force me to act against my beliefs all the time. For example I don't believe in allopathic medicine in general at least not for myself but doctors force it on me. I am literally offered no alternative because I'm on free insurance so it's either get sick try and treat myself or take the medicine that could possibly make me sicker. I don't believe in any of that. I believe more in seeking a doctor with my beliefs.
No they don't. The freedom to pursue does not equal "being entitled to", for free.
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Also I'm constantly told if I want to get a job I have to lie but I don't believe in that so much that I literally can't do it well but I am forced to try because any time I am honest I don't get hired. At best I have to say "it was nice to meet you" even though I know I'm being fake as crap.
Okay, those are your choices.
I believe in the rights of private employers and "employed at will" laws. I do not believe any private employers should ever be forced to hire anyone against their own judgement.
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This is far more damaging than calling someone a different gender as it has affected my physical health as well as mental.
If another person's actions have affected your physical health, then that is assault.
If your mental state has affected your health that is not more damaging than any other mental issue. I'm familiar with the effects of depression regardless of the cause.
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I really don't see the big deal because it's just a pronoun/name. It's not like you have to consider a person nice when they're an ahole. In fact you don't even have to believe that they are that gender but you should call them the pronoun they believe they are.
Absolutely not. Words have meaning, they are at the root of the rise of every civilization on this planet. To disavow truth in language and communication is to weaken and disrespect rationality and the constructs of society as well as that person honesty and integrity.
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It's not just about "hurt feelings" persay. It's about respecting the transgendered person's beliefs. By saying that you don't think the person is really the other gender,
Agreed.
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that invalidates them. Some of them might start to believe you and then think they don't belong in this world. I guess technically you can call them anything you want. You can call them a freak too but does that mean you should?
Gender is a societal concept. When the first woman and man came about into this earth, I'm pretty sure someone just automatically decided the woman is a woman and the man is a man. There was no scientists back then to tell them "boys have a penis and girls have a vagina" so how did they know a woman was a woman and a man was a man?
Gender is not a societal concept. The common nouns used to describe a naturally occurring human condition are. The term is of no consequence, whatever word was used would still describe the general person place or thing that we know today.
They knew what each was due to its physical characteristics.
I don't care if a woman comes into the men's room because she's going to use a stall, not the urinal. She won't see mine and I won't see hers. Anyone, man or woman, going into a woman's room will use a stall, so again, nobody sees anything. The reality is transgenders have been using the bathroom of their choice for many years. We just didn't know it.
Locker rooms are another story. Males and females (this isn't just adult settings we're talking about) shouldn't have to be changing and showering in front of each other. Locker rooms are an example where the rights of the many trump the rights of the few.
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Transgender people have a right to be what they want to be..
