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Europeans have wanted the Americans out since the 1960s.
a rare almost agreement.
The average european, wants a limited US presence but nothing like as big as it is. And that is with most of them not even knowing just how much us gear is there nor how many troops...
The average european, wants a limited US presence but nothing like as big as it is. And that is with most of them not even knowing just how much us gear is there nor how many troops...
Of course I was only referring to the part of Europe that was once called Western Europe. It's completely different for those countries that were once behind the Iron Curtain.
well, Approximately 1.4 to 1.5 Billion US$ is spent per year to maintain these men and women. The Government of Korea, under US-Korea defence budget-sharing agreement, also contributes additional half of this cost (~740 million US$) through Korean taxpayers.
But.. North Korea's target is south Korea. They (s Korea) are supposed to pay more. Why should everybody else pay for THEIR defense at all?
I have no problems if US troops leave Japan, not like anybody would want to attack them. If so, who cares? The Japanese can learn to defend themselves. Not like they are pansy, historically speaking.
Lily...it's the same m.o. for us all the time.
The United States NEVER leaves a place unless we're kicked out. Otherwise, we can never seem to find a way to leave on our own no matter how unsubtle the hints are.
The Philippines did it right. They basically forced our hand and we had to leave. Unfortunately, it took a natural disaster to give us the extra impetus.
Maybe Germany, Japan and South Korea need active volcanoes placed near our bases to explode ash all over the place to make us see the light.
The United States NEVER leaves a place unless we're kicked out. Otherwise, we can never seem to find a way to leave on our own no matter how unsubtle the hints are.
The Philippines did it right. They basically forced our hand and we had to leave. Unfortunately, it took a natural disaster to give us the extra impetus.
Maybe Germany, Japan and South Korea need active volcanoes placed near our bases to explode ash all over the place to make us see the light.
Hell, I don't know.
yeah.. So sad.
Just leave, and spend all these money on our own people. I don't know either, wish I have an answer.
Jesus, someone asking the rest of the world to pay their way and that we are going to quit being everyone's baby daddy. Finally, we have an administration with a set of rocks. I'm just looking forward to things here at home like illegals getting tossed, manufacturing jobs coming back, liberals getting tossed off entitlements and actually having to work.. I haven't even begun to bask in the new world events.
So is it wrong to expect our NATO allies to pay their fair share and to honor their commitments? NATO absolutely benefits Europe far more than it does the USA in regards to Russia. Russia doesn't have an amphibious assault force that can threaten the USA, nor can they airlift enough men and materials to threaten the USA. NATO protects Europe.
Our allies should be held accountable. We simply can't afford to foot the bill for the free loaders and more. The fact is that we never could.
So is it wrong to expect our NATO allies to pay their fair share and to honor their commitments?
No, it is not wrong. The fact that NATO allies shirk their duties suggests they don't take NATO seriously, and if they don't, then neither should we.
Quote:
Originally Posted by boneyard1962
NATO absolutely benefits Europe far more than it does the USA in regards to Russia. Russia doesn't have an amphibious assault force that can threaten the USA, nor can they airlift enough men and materials to threaten the USA. NATO protects Europe.
Our allies should be held accountable. We simply can't afford to foot the bill for the free loaders and more. The fact is that we never could.
Jesus, someone asking the rest of the world to pay their way and that we are going to quit being everyone's baby daddy. Finally, we have an administration with a set of rocks. I'm just looking forward to things here at home like illegals getting tossed, manufacturing jobs coming back, liberals getting tossed off entitlements and actually having to work.. I haven't even begun to bask in the new world events.
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27,182 posts, read 13,469,799 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukas1973
The problem that I have with these U.S. bases in Germany is that they are used for the drone warfare. Many innocent people are killed. And this kind of warfare will cause more hate in the affected countries. That will lead to more terrorism, not less.
Most of the problems around the world would be solved if the U.S. would stay out of other countries. Unfortunately the U.S. will never stop playing world's policeman. The military-industrial complex in the U.S. is way too important for the U.S. economy.
There really aren't massive US Forces in Europe anymore, the US Army has a standing force of around 30,000 in Europe and there have been some temporary NATO deployments to Eastern Europe including British Soldiers but if the Russians stop building up military forces on the border with the rest of Europe, stopped flying in to NATO Airspace, which they did 800 times last year (up from 400 the year before) and stopped continually sailing warships and spy ships off NATO members coastslines on occasions even going in to territorial waters then NATO would bot need to be as vigilant or deploy some of the current forces in Europe.
Furthermore don't forget the Russians themselves have interfered and continue to interfere in global affairs, whether it is Europe, Syria or even in terms of other countries elections or via cyber attacks. What the Russians did to Aleppo was far worse than any drone attack and was on a scale of destruction rarely seen since WW2.
The difference between Trump and Putin, is that the national media are free to criticise Donald (fake news or not), anyone who is critical of Putin risks being found dead in a car park or floating in a river. Putin is not a particuarly nice man, and don't be fooled in to trusting Putin or indeed Putin's Russia. NATO is very important for our security, and 2% GDP is not a lot to ask.
As for Drones, they are mainly operated from the US itself, Creech air force base near Las Vegas in Nevada being the centre of such operations with RAF personnel based there.
So is it wrong to expect our NATO allies to pay their fair share and to honor their commitments? NATO absolutely benefits Europe far more than it does the USA in regards to Russia. Russia doesn't have an amphibious assault force that can threaten the USA, nor can they airlift enough men and materials to threaten the USA. NATO protects Europe.
Our allies should be held accountable. We simply can't afford to foot the bill for the free loaders and more. The fact is that we never could.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea
No, it is not wrong. The fact that NATO allies shirk their duties suggests they don't take NATO seriously, and if they don't, then neither should we.
Correct.
It's seems like most of Europeans choice is for the USA to "moderate it's comittment" and close bases and leave Europe. But that's not what the USA really wants so we are going to be at an impasse and continue to just complain.
You can't really get the Europeans to pay for what they really don't want.
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