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The bold is where we disagree, even when it comes to Mr.West. Just going by the article I posted, and the others i have read, he seems to argue that racism is deeper than economics/capitalism.
Again, its my opinion, but he seems to be saying that those things are only vehicles for racism, and how it manifests itself.
here, i will quote him again
He believes the quickest route to helping black people is econimics, but he in no way thinks that economics and class are the root cause , he point blank says, you cant for get white supremacy itself.
Well he's not saying anything that I haven't said before. I almost think he is talking about piecemeal liberal reform too. I think we should differentiate between what could alleviate racial antagonisms in current society vs eliminating racism in the broader sense. Racism is deeper than capitalism in the very grander scheme of things and we are talking about the human condition, but as far as crafting a better alternative to elicit social, racial and economic change and to transition away from this older model full of contradictions, is to create a better economic system. I mean the type of deep seated racism or prejudice you're referring to is to me like jealousy or hatred, it's deeper than economics but what can you really do about it with the tools you have to change society? You could lessen them and smash a lot of the connotations tied to POC based on being poorer or "ghetto" or whatnot.
People talk about Asians in this country as though they're the exemplary race, racist people say why can't other races be like them or what not, but it's also due to elitism that they say this. Asians still face racism but overall their hassles are lessened to a much greater extent than African Americans or Latinos based on that economic component liberals today amputate from the discussion.
A talk between Richard Wolff, Marxist scholar, and Cornel West on capitalism and white supremacy. Skip to minute 9:18 where Laura Flanders asks Cornel that there was more Marx or radical analysis in the Civil Rights movement of the past than there is now. Cornel answers it perfectly. It's a symbiotic relationship he compares to an orchestra. And in the end is why MLK became a Democratic Socialism. Any real analysis of racism in a capitalist country will lead to someone turning more leftward.
Well he's not saying anything that I haven't said before. I almost think he is talking about piecemeal liberal reform too. I think we should differentiate between what could alleviate racial antagonisms in current society vs eliminating racism in the broader sense. Racism is deeper than capitalism in the very grander scheme of things and we are talking about the human condition, but as far as crafting a better alternative to elicit social, racial and economic change and to transition away from this older model full of contradictions, is to create a better economic system. I mean the type of deep seated racism or prejudice you're referring to is to me like jealousy or hatred, it's deeper than economics but what can you really do about it with the tools you have to change society? You could lessen them and smash a lot of the connotations tied to POC based on being poorer or "ghetto" or whatnot.
People talk about Asians in this country as though they're the exemplary race, racist people say why can't other races be like them or what not, but it's also due to elitism that they say this. Asians still face racism but overall their hassles are lessened to a much greater extent than African Americans or Latinos based on that economic component liberals today amputate from the discussion.
Its not racist to point out that economically successful minority groups dont have the problems with the police that certain other minority groups have. Do Koreans fear for their lives when being stopped by the police? I frequently hear that people say that minorities fear for their lives, but statistics show that whites are far more likely to get killed by police than Asians relative to their population.
The main reason identity politics is pushed is because the Democratic Party moved away from the unions and embraced Wall Street. Party strategists in collusion with donors and their lobbyists still have to get people to support them even though their economic policies hurt the people they claim they serve. Identity politics serves as a way to get poor people riled up and excited and go to the polls while the economy is increasingly dominated by big money donors. The media they own broadcast their preferred narrative all the time.
Its not racist to point out that economically successful minority groups dont have the problems with the police that certain other minority groups have. Do Koreans fear for their lives when being stopped by the police? I frequently hear that people say that minorities fear for their lives, but statistics show that whites are far more likely to get killed by police than Asians.
The main reason identity politics is pushed is because the Democratic Party moved away from the unions and embraced Wall Street. Identity politics serve as a way to get poor people riled up and excited and go to the polls while the economy is increasingly dominated by big money donors. The media they own broadcast their preferred narrative all the time.
It isn't so much that identity politics has taken over the left, but that the discussion about class and economics has been amputated from discussion. There was a symbiotic relationship tying the two together to explain each other more lucidly. Now with the latter being totally cut off, you're left with half an argument.
And in the end without it you get a liberal analysis full of holes that doesn't dive deep enough. It starts to sound like a quest to stomp out racism in and of itself through piecemeal reform. Now granted anti-racist reforms shouldn't be opposed but it's still leaving an entire component out and ends up almost seeming utopian in scope.
It isn't so much that identity politics has taken over the left, but that the discussion about class and economics has been amputated from discussion. There was a symbiotic relationship tying the two together to explain each other more lucidly. Now with the latter being totally cut off, you're left with half an argument.
And in the end without it you get a liberal analysis full of holes that doesn't dive deep enough. It starts to sound like a quest to stomp out racism in and of itself through piecemeal reform. Now granted that shouldn't be opposed but it's still leaving an entire component out and almost seems utopian.
Yes, its utopian and and its not meant to really reform anything. "acknowledging privilege" is a complete dead end. The whole point is to get people riled up and engaged in tribalism, not solving anything. If they wanted to solve things, they naturally, as you point out, would have to strongly push progressive economic policies that lift up disadvantaged and poor communities. But thats not their agenda. Because the donor class wont allow it. The big money interests controlling the Democrats and the media they own only allow "liberalism" on the issues that wont affect their economic interests. That means identity politics on stereoids.
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Originally Posted by PCALMike
Yes, its utopian and and its not meant to really reform anything. "acknowledging privilege" is a complete dead end. The whole point is to get people riled up and engaged in tribalism, not solving anything. If they wanted to solve things, they naturally, as you point out, would have to strongly push progressive economic policies that lift up disadvantaged and poor communities. But thats not their agenda. Because the donor class wont allow it. The big money interests controlling the Democrats and the media they own only allow "liberalism" on the issues that wont affect their economic interests. That means identity politics on stereoids.
You dont think maybe, some people just disagree with you on economic issues. Im one of them, and there is no one paying me to do it, LOL
Yes, its utopian and and its not meant to really reform anything. "acknowledging privilege" is a complete dead end. The whole point is to get people riled up and engaged in tribalism, not solving anything. If they wanted to solve things, they naturally, as you point out, would have to strongly push progressive economic policies that lift up disadvantaged and poor communities. But thats not their agenda. Because the donor class wont allow it. The big money interests controlling the Democrats and the media they own only allow "liberalism" on the issues that wont affect their economic interests. That means identity politics on stereoids.
Yes, have you guys noticed that the elite shut up anyone they've allowed to bridge gaps based on race, when they start talking about class? MLK was tolerated by the upper crust until he started going into economics and militarism. The Civil Rights struggle was stopped at economic justice. Racial justice tolerated to some extent, economic justice is met with the swift coercive arm of the state.
You dont think maybe, some people just disagree with you on economic issues. Im one of them, and there is no one paying me to do it, LOL
I am not talking about you. I am talking about the party shift. The huge shift in focus and embracing the ruling oligarchy as a result of the push to the right by third way Democrats. Thats when identity politics became essential as the donors who control the party and the media and thus controls the narrative only allow liberalism on issues that dont threaten their privileges and status.
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