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Old 04-03-2017, 01:03 AM
 
Location: Eugene, Oregon
11,122 posts, read 5,590,841 times
Reputation: 16596

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewjdeg View Post
Exactly. A coal fired plant, though dirty, is still more efficient than an individual gas powered motor.
The only place that coal has a good future, is in Trump's speeches to coal-miners.
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Old 04-03-2017, 01:22 AM
 
Location: Chesapeake Bay
6,046 posts, read 4,817,498 times
Reputation: 3544
Quote:
Originally Posted by KS_Referee View Post
When the POTUS and the CEOs of every major corporation can and do reliably power their limos, cars, trucks, boats, yachts, ships, helicopters, aircraft, businesses and homes by this pie in the sky technology, not needing to continually feed the pig by replacing costly, dangerous and low range batteries every so many years, I too will make the leap to this utopian energy. Until then, I'll choose fossil fuels every time.
Technology does move on. At an ever rapidly increasing rate.

Look at telephones. Do you even have one? I don't. Cell phones have completely taken over. Didn't take very long either.

When the electric car range approaches 1000 miles (and they will - but 600-700 miles will likely be the turning point) they will take over. Just as the cell phones replaced landlines.
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Old 04-03-2017, 02:46 AM
 
Location: Lone Mountain Las Vegas NV
18,058 posts, read 10,350,196 times
Reputation: 8828
Quote:
Originally Posted by KS_Referee View Post
Also notorious is the left's refusal to acknowledge the retail cost of electricity has doubled in the past 10-12 years. I wonder why it has doubled and I wonder why the left continually fails to mention this fact?
Cost of residential electricity is up about 40% since 2001. Why do you people lie about such commonly available data?

https://www.eia.gov/opendata/qb.php?...PRICE.US-ALL.A
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Old 04-03-2017, 04:29 AM
 
5,722 posts, read 5,800,250 times
Reputation: 4381
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
Cost of residential electricity is up about 40% since 2001. Why do you people lie about such commonly available data?

https://www.eia.gov/opendata/qb.php?...PRICE.US-ALL.A
You know what isn't up 40 percent? Wages.
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Old 04-03-2017, 04:47 AM
 
Location: Just over the horizon
18,461 posts, read 7,089,783 times
Reputation: 11702
Quote:
Originally Posted by natalie469 View Post
My husband has a Volt and plugs in into the outlet in our garage. And it really doesn't increase our electric bill by that much. In fact it's way cheaper than buying gas. This is the future.
Every Volt that GM produced was heavily subsidized by your tax dollars.

I don't know how accurate these figures are but I remember reading something that claimed every Volt cost GM $80,000 to produce and had to have a $40,000 bone tied around it's neck in taxpayer subsidies in order to hit the $40,000 price point needed to get the public to play with it.

Now, even at $40k......how much gas would you have to save in order to really be ahead of the game over say...an $18,000 gas powered Honda Civic that gets 40 mpg?

(To say nothing of the 40k in subsidies) .


Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against electric cars in theory...

But the government is trying to use taxpayer dollars to force the technology into mainstream acceptance before it's really viable.
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Old 04-03-2017, 06:54 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,199,011 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weichert View Post
Technology does move on. At an ever rapidly increasing rate.

Look at telephones. Do you even have one? I don't. Cell phones have completely taken over. Didn't take very long either.

When the electric car range approaches 1000 miles (and they will - but 600-700 miles will likely be the turning point) they will take over. Just as the cell phones replaced landlines.
Tesla now has it to where you can get around 200 miles out of a 20 minute charge with their super chargers. Tesla's are not affordable for many yet but we are getting there. Most people driving this far will stop and get a bite to eat or take a leak.
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Old 04-03-2017, 07:01 AM
 
Location: Former land of plenty
3,212 posts, read 1,652,334 times
Reputation: 2017
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatBob96 View Post
Every Volt that GM produced was heavily subsidized by your tax dollars.

I don't know how accurate these figures are but I remember reading something that claimed every Volt cost GM $80,000 to produce and had to have a $40,000 bone tied around it's neck in taxpayer subsidies in order to hit the $40,000 price point needed to get the public to play with it.

Now, even at $40k......how much gas would you have to save in order to really be ahead of the game over say...an $18,000 gas powered Honda Civic that gets 40 mpg?

(To say nothing of the 40k in subsidies) .


Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against electric cars in theory...

But the government is trying to use taxpayer dollars to force the technology into mainstream acceptance before it's really viable.
It's a good thing that the government doesn't spend billions of dollars to protect oil interests in the Middle East.
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Old 04-03-2017, 07:03 AM
 
52,431 posts, read 26,628,813 times
Reputation: 21097
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Tesla now has it to where you can get around 200 miles out of a 20 minute charge with their super chargers. Tesla's are not affordable for many yet but we are getting there. Most people driving this far will stop and get a bite to eat or take a leak.
Here is the reality.
  • A super charger should only be used sparingly. It damages the batteries.
  • If you find, or install a 240V, 50A outlet. Then you can recharge a Tesla in about 6 hours. Keep in mind this is the same energy used by an electric stove if all the burners are turned on high and the oven turned on with the door open for the same duration. It will cost you between several hundred to several 1000 dollars plus the cost of the charger to have one installed in a home.
  • If you end up where there are only 110V outlets available, vast majority of the USA, then it takes about 4-5 days to charge a Tesla to full power from "empty".
  • Stated ranges are only if you drive at 55MPH and don't use the air conditioner or heat. They are absolutely best case. In the real world, a 200 mile range Tesla is good for about 75% of that.
  • For all this inconvenience, a Tesla S will set you back $80K or more.
The reality is that this is not a car that will make any dent at all in the real world. Not when there are new cars out there for a fraction of that cost, that can be re-fueled in less than 5 minutes on $2 gas, that can be drive for 400 miles or more.
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Old 04-03-2017, 07:06 AM
 
Location: My House
34,938 posts, read 36,258,444 times
Reputation: 26552
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatBob96 View Post
Every Volt that GM produced was heavily subsidized by your tax dollars.

I don't know how accurate these figures are but I remember reading something that claimed every Volt cost GM $80,000 to produce and had to have a $40,000 bone tied around it's neck in taxpayer subsidies in order to hit the $40,000 price point needed to get the public to play with it.

Now, even at $40k......how much gas would you have to save in order to really be ahead of the game over say...an $18,000 gas powered Honda Civic that gets 40 mpg?

(To say nothing of the 40k in subsidies) .


Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against electric cars in theory...

But the government is trying to use taxpayer dollars to force the technology into mainstream acceptance before it's really viable.
I'd rather it be spent on Volts than on more bombs.

Besides, I pay a LOT of taxes. If your figures are accurate, we've paid enough to cover each of the Volts we've purchased.

And then some.
__________________
When in doubt, check it out: FAQ
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Old 04-03-2017, 07:16 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,199,011 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldoKitty View Post
Here is the reality.
  • A super charger should only be used sparingly. It damages the batteries.
  • If you find, or install a 240V, 50A outlet. Then you can recharge a Tesla in about 6 hours. Keep in mind this is the same energy used by an electric stove if all the burners are turned on high and the oven turned on with the door open for the same duration. It will cost you between several hundred to several 1000 dollars plus the cost of the charger to have one installed in a home.
  • If you end up where there are only 110V outlets available, vast majority of the USA, then it takes about 4-5 days to charge a Tesla to full power from "empty".
  • Stated ranges are only if you drive at 55MPH and don't use the air conditioner or heat. They are absolutely best case. In the real world, a 200 mile range Tesla is good for about 75% of that.
  • For all this inconvenience, a Tesla S will set you back $80K or more.
The reality is that this is not a car that will make any dent at all in the real world. Not when there are new cars out there for a fraction of that cost, that can be re-fueled in less than 5 minutes on $2 gas, that can be drive for 400 miles or more.
It already is. All major manufacturers are playing catch up.

You don't need to install a 240 charger. You only need the outlet just like with your dryer.

The infrastructure is just now being built. We had few passable roads when cars first came on the scene.

When cell phones came on the markets people didn't discard their land lines. Now they are.
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